Defensive Holding/Illegal block

[Jaysef]

How many of you out there see more than a few holds, and illegal blocks on defensive players. I'm trying to get a feel for the frequency of this violation (especially 7th/8th, and Sub-varsity)with other crews out there, since we have run into 2 coaches already this season (West Michigan) who do not understand how a defensive player can get called for a blocking-related foul...I don't get it.

1st case this year: K player running downfield to cover an opening kick-off blasts R from behind...we penalize K, and the coach is livid. "How can I get an illegal block when I'm on defense...!"

2nd case: twice in a 78er contest, defense called for holding when my HL sees B lineman tossing A lineman to the turf by his jersey...we flag for holding...coach gives us the business because he believes that action in the free blocking zone by defense is acceptable...I realize we are teaching kids at that level, but I don't believe we were over-officious in this instance...

please add opinions

Michigan Ump

[BulldogMcC]

Originally posted by Jaysef
How many of you out there see more than a few holds, and illegal blocks on defensive players. I'm trying to get a feel for the frequency of this violation (especially 7th/8th, and Sub-varsity)with other crews out there, since we have run into 2 coaches already this season (West Michigan) who do not understand how a defensive player can get called for a blocking-related foul...I don't get it.

1st case this year: K player running downfield to cover an opening kick-off blasts R from behind...we penalize K, and the coach is livid. "How can I get an illegal block when I'm on defense...!"

2nd case: twice in a 78er contest, defense called for holding when my HL sees B lineman tossing A lineman to the turf by his jersey...we flag for holding...coach gives us the business because he believes that action in the free blocking zone by defense is acceptable...I realize we are teaching kids at that level, but I don't believe we were over-officious in this instance...

please add opinions

Michigan Ump

In case 1, if K was just blasting at R to hit somebody, I think I call it, if he was trying to get past him to the runner/ball, it is nothing, since blocking is the obstructing of an opponent and trying to get by does not meet that requirement. I would have to see it to rule really. One of the excpetions to BIB is "Using hands and arms to contact an opponent above the waist in warding off a blocker, or when attempting to reach a runner, or catch or recover a loose ball which he may legally touch or possess" 9-3-5b The main part here is as long as the contact is not clipping, behind and below the waist, if a player is making a play on the ball/ball carrier, and they hit another opponent in the back while doing that, it is not a foul.

In case 2, I again would have to see it because a 2-3-5 dictates that "A defensive player may also ... Push, pull or ward off an opponnent in an actual attempt to get at the runner or a loose ball if such contact is not pass interference, a personal foul or illegal use of hands." If he grabs a pulling guard to prevent him from getting to his blocking assignment, that would be defensive holding, if he grabbed a guard that was pass blocking by the shoulder pads and threw him aside (even to the ground) to clear a path for himself to get at the QB, you have nothing.

As a U, the most commen defensive holding I see on the line is on the releasing Tight End. While they can contact him while he is a potential blocker, once he moves to side step defensive players, they have to leave him be. On more than one occasion, as the TE was passing a LB the LB will remember he was supposed to contact the TE, will reach out and grasp the TE and push/pull him to knock him off stride. This is neither against a potential blocker nor to reach a the ball/ball carrier and is defensive holding.

In a nut shell, for defensive holding, the defense has to be restraining an opponent other than in an attempt for themselves to reach the ball or the ball carrier. B76 cannot hold A65 so that B34 can go through the gap created, but B76 could grasp A65 and push/pull him to make a gap for B76 to go through to get at the ball or ball carrier. B93 could grasp the TE A89 and throw him aside to make a gap for D93 to go through, but only while A89 was a potential blocker and he could not stay holding him other than to grasp and push/pull him aside to make that gap for himself.

[Jaysef]

Thanks Bulldog. Your perspective helps in the way we think about these calls. I believe we used proper judgement.

On the play by K, it was K knocking R to the ground, in the back, in open field, while running towards the return. Technically, I suppose he was heading towards the runner, but he was still 20-30 yards from runner. On the D-hold call, it was the D-lineman taking the O-lineman by his jersey, and spin-slamming him to the ground by his jersey. Is this perhaps Illegal use of hands? How would you rule?

Jaysef

[BulldogMcC]

Originally posted by Jaysef
Thanks Bulldog. Your perspective helps in the way we think about these calls. I believe we used proper judgement.

On the play by K, it was K knocking R to the ground, in the back, in open field, while running towards the return. Technically, I suppose he was heading towards the runner, but he was still 20-30 yards from runner. On the D-hold call, it was the D-lineman taking the O-lineman by his jersey, and spin-slamming him to the ground by his jersey. Is this perhaps Illegal use of hands? How would you rule?

Jaysef

If I understand the term spin-slamming he is basically just grasping the O-Lineman, spinning his body and using the momentum of the spin to drive the O-lineman into the ground and this is not a bonafide attempt to make a move on the lineman to get by him and make a play on the ball or ball carrier. It is an act directed at putting a 'hit' on the O-Lineman. If I see a player on either side doing something that does not further their participation in the play and is meant solely to be a vicious action against an opponent I start calling 9-4-3g, Make an other contact with an opponent which is deemed unnecessary and which incites roughness. The fact the players are padded and playing football does not give a player the liberty to hit an opponent just for the sake of hitting him. A spin-slam sounds like it incites roughness to me and the PF 15 yards will get their attention and cause less coach/player confusion than a 10 yard holding call. If it doesn't incite roughness in the covering official's opinion, it could still be defensive holding if he is just restraining his opponent and not making a play on the ball or ball carrier.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I'm with BullDog on his answers to your questions. Typically, defensive holding will be called when an defensive player grabs and restricts his offensive opponent from moving with no attempt to get at the ball carrier or a loose ball he can legally possess. The kind of plays where he 'momentarily' grabs the offensive player to throw him aside ("ward off a block") should be ignored.

BD also alluded to another instance of defensive holding. The illegal "pull-and-shoot" technique is used on punts, FGs and tries. Defensive lineman pulls his opponent down and away so that a linebacker or DB can shoot the gap to block the kick.

[Jaysef]

Thanks guys...expanding this thread while we're on the topic...what about an O-lineman laying on top of his opponent after a flat-out pancake block while the play ensues?

J

[BulldogMcC]

Originally posted by Jaysef
Thanks guys...expanding this thread while we're on the topic...what about an O-lineman laying on top of his opponent after a flat-out pancake block while the play ensues?

J

[humor]Depends, would it be a legal block if they were standing up?[/humor]
I have seen this and usually don't pay attention to it unless the O-Line is truely holding him down. If he is just laying torso on torso there is no rule against blocking a defender legal on the ground. I do keep an eye for the defender taking cheap shots out of frustration though.