counting players signals

[Forksref]

Prior to the snap you count the players. What signals do you use for: (1) 11 (2) 12 (3) 10 ?

[WyMike]

We use a closed fist for a good count, 11 players. Nothing for less than 11 as it isn't a concern of ours. For 11+ before the RFP I'll not signal with a closed fist at all, and tell the nearest player of A or B to "Count your players Blue/White!".

If they break with 12+ in the huddle they get a flag.

WM

[JDLJ]

For 11, we use the fist signal.
For 10, we use ten fingers on the chest.
For 12, touching the cap

[mikesears]

11... close fist extended out.

10.... five fingers on the chest and held until the snap.

12.... 2 fingers (like a V) with the arm in an L-shape.

[michaelpr]

thumbs up for 11 or less players.

no signal for 12 or more. we are not allowed non state adopted signals. i think we are putting our self at a disadvantage on this.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by WyMike
We use a closed fist for a good count, 11 players. Nothing for less than 11 as it isn't a concern of ours. For 11+ before the RFP I'll not signal with a closed fist at all, and tell the nearest player of A or B to "Count your players Blue/White!".

If they break with 12+ in the huddle they get a flag.

WM

REPLY: There is no Federation rule regarding breaking the huddle with 12 (or more). Two plays to illustrate:

(1.) Sub A12 comes onto the field and enters the huddle. After about 5 seconds, no one has left. RULING: Flag it then. Don't wait for the huddle to break. [Note: This is why it's important to count players in the huddle if possible instead of waiting for them to get into formation.

(2.) Sub A12 comes onto the field and enters the huddle. Immediately the huddle breaks and replaced player A1 heads toward his sideline out of the play. RULING: No foul (in Federation) even though the huddle broke with 12.

Also, I disagree with you statement that "...it isn't a concern of ours..." if there are less than 11. I believe it is. A signal for less than 11 ccommunicates to your crewmates to be aware that a player entering the field late should be expected. It also (if by Team A) can help determine if an illegal formation might exist at the snap (i.e. four in the backfield, less than 11 on the fild).

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by Bob M.

REPLY: There is no Federation rule regarding breaking the huddle with 12 (or more). Two plays to illustrate:

(1.) Sub A12 comes onto the field and enters the huddle. After about 5 seconds, no one has left. RULING: Flag it then. Don't wait for the huddle to break. [Note: This is why it's important to count players in the huddle if possible instead of waiting for them to get into formation.

(2.) Sub A12 comes onto the field and enters the huddle. Immediately the huddle breaks and replaced player A1 heads toward his sideline out of the play. RULING: No foul (in Federation) even though the huddle broke with 12.

Also, I disagree with you statement that "...it isn't a concern of ours..." if there are less than 11. I believe it is. A signal for less than 11 ccommunicates to your crewmates to be aware that a player entering the field late should be expected. It also (if by Team A) can help determine if an illegal formation might exist at the snap (i.e. four in the backfield, less than 11 on the fild).

Absolutely, especially the part about 10 being on the field. If I don't know there's 10 on the field I won't have a flag because I won't know theres 10 on the field. Hope the opposite wing official notices it.

[WyMike]

Originally posted by Bob M.

REPLY: There is no Federation rule regarding breaking the huddle with 12 (or more). Two plays to illustrate:

(1.) Sub A12 comes onto the field and enters the huddle. After about 5 seconds, no one has left. RULING: Flag it then. Don't wait for the huddle to break. [Note: This is why it's important to count players in the huddle if possible instead of waiting for them to get into formation.

(2.) Sub A12 comes onto the field and enters the huddle. Immediately the huddle breaks and replaced player A1 heads toward his sideline out of the play. RULING: No foul (in Federation) even though the huddle broke with 12.

Also, I disagree with you statement that "...it isn't a concern of ours..." if there are less than 11. I believe it is. A signal for less than 11 ccommunicates to your crewmates to be aware that a player entering the field late should be expected. It also (if by Team A) can help determine if an illegal formation might exist at the snap (i.e. four in the backfield, less than 11 on the fild).

Excellent point. I've always been aware if there was less than 11 players and B11 was coming in late, but maybe my partner doesn't. This will come up at our next meeting and certainly during my next pregame anyway. Thanks Bob.

WM

[MJT]

11 fist
10 thumb down
12 thumb up or a flag depending...

Definitely need to know if less than 10 for both reasons Bob mentioned.

[grantsrc]

Originally posted by WyMike
If they break with 12+ in the huddle they get a flag.

WM

BREAKING THE HUDDLE WITH 12 IS NOT A FOUL IN FEDERATION BALL!!!! This is an NCAA rule. See rule 3-7 on substitution. Sorry, I am getting irritated with this statement in HS ball.

Yes, it is important to communicate when you have 10, 11, and 12. If the offense only has 10 and has 4 backs in their formation, you should have flag. Like Bob said, it also alerts you for the late substitution.

10=Thumbs down
11=Fist
12=Thumbs up/Flag with new substitution rule this year, depending on length of time substitute is on the field.

[waltjp]

Originally posted by Bob M.
Also, I disagree with you statement that "...it isn't a concern of ours..." if there are less than 11. I believe it is. A signal for less than 11 ccommunicates to your crewmates to be aware that a player entering the field late should be expected. It also (if by Team A) can help determine if an illegal formation might exist at the snap (i.e. four in the backfield, less than 11 on the fild).

My R doesn't want us to signal if the count is less than 11. His theory is that it could give the offense a chance to see the signal and make adjustments.

I don't agee. I don't see it any difference between signalling that A has 10 players on the field and one of the wings punching back when the player on their side is off the line. A could just as easily see both wings punching back and know that they one of them belongs on the line.

I also think that signalling that there are only 10 players on the line would help the wings count the players on the line of scrimmage.

[ref18]

11 players - point down to the ground
12 players - tap the brim of our hats
13 players - tap our flags

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by ref18
11 players - point down to the ground
12 players - tap the brim of our hats
13 players - tap our flags

10 or less?

14 or more?