all but 1??

cowbyfan1 · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 28, 2005, 05:05am

This kind of goes hand in hand with my other post.

2nd and 7 from the B10. A22 runs the ball to the B5 where he is tackled. During the run B35 commits holding in the end zone (why? no idea but he is a football player and not real bright). Where is the foul enforced from?? Under all but 1 should be the end zone but we know we cannot do that.

Here is why I am bringing this up. 1st and 10 from the A10, B11 runs off the field thinking there are 12 players on defense. He realizes there are only 10 and runs back on after the snap at the A20. A22 is tackled on a running play at the A15. Per the Fed/Referee pub handed out this would be enforced from the spot of the foul (A20) and it would be 1st and 10 for A at the A35.

Now I realize it has been a long off season and after calling a ton of baseball in the last 5 months my screws are a bit rusty, but am I missing something here?

whaddayouknow · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 28, 2005, 05:39am

Quote:

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
This kind of goes hand in hand with my other post.

2nd and 7 from the B10. A22 runs the ball to the B5 where he is tackled. During the run B35 commits holding in the end zone (why? no idea but he is a football player and not real bright). Where is the foul enforced from?? Under all but 1 should be the end zone but we know we cannot do that.

Here is why I am bringing this up. 1st and 10 from the A10, B11 runs off the field thinking there are 12 players on defense. He realizes there are only 10 and runs back on after the snap at the A20. A22 is tackled on a running play at the A15. Per the Fed/Referee pub handed out this would be enforced from the spot of the foul (A20) and it would be 1st and 10 for A at the A35.

Now I realize it has been a long off season and after calling a ton of baseball in the last 5 months my screws are a bit rusty, but am I missing something here?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think both of your awards are wrong. For HS, aren't defensive fouls on a running play always from the end of the run? (This is 'all' part of 'all-but-one'.)

1st play - Basic spot of enforcement is B5, end of run.

2nd play - Basic spot of enforcement is A15, end of run.

cowbyfan1 · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 28, 2005, 05:41am

I know but the IP foul I put into my question says differently. That is my confusion. I always thought I had this down but now I am beginning to wonder...

grantsrc · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 28, 2005, 08:57am

Quote:

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
This kind of goes hand in hand with my other post.

2nd and 7 from the B10. A22 runs the ball to the B5 where he is tackled. During the run B35 commits holding in the end zone (why? no idea but he is a football player and not real bright). Where is the foul enforced from?? Under all but 1 should be the end zone but we know we cannot do that.

Here is why I am bringing this up. 1st and 10 from the A10, B11 runs off the field thinking there are 12 players on defense. He realizes there are only 10 and runs back on after the snap at the A20. A22 is tackled on a running play at the A15. Per the Fed/Referee pub handed out this would be enforced from the spot of the foul (A20) and it would be 1st and 10 for A at the A35.

Now I realize it has been a long off season and after calling a ton of baseball in the last 5 months my screws are a bit rusty, but am I missing something here?

The IP foul doesn't make any sense. Why would you penalize team B from the spot where he returned to the field? I think this is a mistake. Both would be enforced from the end of the run. Something from Redding's NFHS study guide which helps clear this up, "When the foul is by the team not in possession, the penalty is enforced from the basic spot." In both your examples using this philosophy, you would enforce from the end of the run.

MJT · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 28, 2005, 02:53pm

This is basic penalty enforcement. Both plays will be basic spot enforcement, and since they are player fouls by the defense during a running play, they will both be enforced at the end of the run. Don't make it any harder then that.

Mark Dexter · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 28, 2005, 05:20pm

All-but-one only applies to fouls by the offense behind the basic spot. The location of the defensive fouls in these plays are unimportant (unless you want to award A a TD in play #1

.)

cowbyfan1 · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 29, 2005, 01:55am

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
All-but-one only applies to fouls by the offense behind the basic spot. The location of the defensive fouls in these plays are unimportant (unless you want to award A a TD in play #1 .)

I guess I'm gonna not send in that money to get Referee magazine. It was them that put it out there with the football packet I got from the state. Like I said above, I thought I understood all this until I read that article. Made me wonder if I was screwing up on the field. You would think that the NFHS would make sure the info that are putting their name on would be correct.

Jaysef · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 29, 2005, 09:00am

Don't be too hasty in cancelling your subscription...The officials(and editors),lending their expertise to the articles, are human and make mistakes once in awhile. I found an inconsistency a year ago, and e-mailed the editor. He wrote me a brief thanks and apology. I still scour every month's issue and believe it is a great tool with the quizzes, and caseplays.

Jaysef

PSU213 · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 30, 2005, 07:19am

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
All-but-one only applies to fouls by the offense behind the basic spot. The location of the defensive fouls in these plays are unimportant (unless you want to award A a TD in play #1 .)

The all-but-one principle applies to all fouls...it is only the "but one" part that applies just to the offense.

I'm sorry to be picky about this, but it seems like more and more officials seem to have this incorrect "view" of all-but-one (the view that it applies only to offensive fouls).

Mark Dexter · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 30, 2005, 08:26am

Quote:

Originally posted by PSU213

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
All-but-one only applies to fouls by the offense behind the basic spot. The location of the defensive fouls in these plays are unimportant (unless you want to award A a TD in play #1 .)

The all-but-one principle applies to all fouls...it is only the "but one" part that applies just to the offense.

I'm sorry to be picky about this, but it seems like more and more officials seem to have this incorrect "view" of all-but-one (the view that it applies only to offensive fouls).

Mea culpa - I don't think you're being picky at all.

How about I re-word this to say that the "but one" part of all-but-one only applies to offensive fouls - particularly, fouls committed by the offense behind the basic spot?

JugglingReferee · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 30, 2005, 02:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
This kind of goes hand in hand with my other post.

2nd and 7 from the B10. A22 runs the ball to the B5 where he is tackled. During the run B35 commits holding in the end zone (why? no idea but he is a football player and not real bright). Where is the foul enforced from?? Under all but 1 should be the end zone but we know we cannot do that.

This would never be called in Canada. The foul had no impact on the play. However, if someone did call it, half the distance to the goal, from the PLS, with a first down.