Overtime-NFHS - Page 2

PAUMP · #16 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 06:31am

If you read the wording carefully and do as it says then they carry over. One additional for each over time. So if I had 3 after the first overtime then I receive one more in the next time. Nowhere does it say that I lose any.

Warrenkicker · #17 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 07:31am

I was on one side of the arguement for overtime timeouts and now I am on the other. I won't say which but in Kansas we are not to add them. I came to my final conclusion about what I think the rule says after re-re-re-re-re-re-reading it. Now the NF could clear this all up with just a slight bit of rewording and then the arguement over timeouts would be solved. Obviously it is not a well written rule if half the country thinks it says one thing and the other half thinks the opposite.

MJT · #18 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 12:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PAUMP
If you read the wording carefully and do as it says then they carry over. One additional for each over time. So if I had 3 after the first overtime then I receive one more in the next time. Nowhere does it say that I lose any.

Where does it says they carry over?? 3-5-1 says "Each team is permitted one additional timeout during each overtime period plus any unused 2nd half regulation timeout's." It doesn't say any unused extra period TO's and unused 2nd half regualation TO's.

How does "one additional, plus unused 2nd half regulation TO's" in anyway say all the TO's carry over????

Let's turn the wording around, going backwards. It would then say, "unused 2nd half regulation TO's, and one additional TO for the OT period." It seems when you go backwards with the two statements that make up the sentence it makes it more clear that the unused extra period TO's are also carried over.

PAUMP · #19 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 01:53pm

If I receive 1 additional TO during each overtime period plus any unused 2nd half regulation timeouts then if I still had 3 at the end of regulation, for the first overtime period I will have 4. Everyone agrees with that. At the end of the first overtime period nobody scores and no timeouts were used, I will receive 1 additinal TO for each overtime period now giving me 5.
The wording says I get an additional one for each overtime period. Additional means that you add so therefore I am going to receive another one. It doesn't say that I max out on TO.

mikesears · #20 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 02:07pm

For those of you who are on the side that says they don't carry over, the argument about which timeouts are removed from the number of timeouts makes sense.

Team A has all 3 timeouts remaining at the end of regulation. Team B has 1 timeout remaining. Game goes to overtime (NF Suggested). I will refer to remaining 4th quarter timeouts as *R* timeouts (for regulation. I will refer to additional OT timeouts as *O* for overtime.

To start the overtime, team A has 4 timeouts (3 *R* and 1 *O*) and team B has 2 timeouts (1 *R* and 1 *O*). Team A takes a timeout during the 1st overtime reducing there number to 3 remaining. Which timeout did they just take? The *R* or the *O*?

Team B does not take a timeout during the 1st overtime period. As the game goes to the second overtime, how many timeout does each team have? The answer is 4th Quarter timeouts + 2nd OT timeouts. But which timeout did team A take? One of there three *R* timeouts or the sole *O* timeout? It makes a difference in the number of timeouts they get to start the 2nd overtime.

Illinois carries them over from OT to OT.

EDITED:

If I were king for a day, I'd allow them to carry timeouts over from OT to OT to a maximum of 3 timeouts for any overtime period.

[Edited by mikesears on Jul 20th, 2005 at 03:10 PM]

MJT · #21 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 05:29pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PAUMP
If I receive 1 additional TO during each overtime period plus any unused 2nd half regulation timeouts then if I still had 3 at the end of regulation, for the first overtime period I will have 4. Everyone agrees with that. At the end of the first overtime period nobody scores and no timeouts were used, I will receive 1 additinal TO for each overtime period now giving me 5.
The wording says I get an additional one for each overtime period. Additional means that you add so therefore I am going to receive another one. It doesn't say that I max out on TO.

You do get "one additional" TO for each OT, "plus the "regular 2nd half" so I think you never will have more than 4.

I am going to check for sure with our state supervisor, and I think we are going to have to agree to disagree, and I'm ok with that. Good discussion.

jack015 · #22 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 07:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PAUMP
If I receive 1 additional TO during each overtime period plus any unused 2nd half regulation timeouts then if I still had 3 at the end of regulation, for the first overtime period I will have 4.

If you re-read your post above, you use the word "DURING" -the same as the NF suggested OT procedure. The way I understand that wording is you get one TO during each OT plus your unused 2nd half TO's. The procedure never mentions carrying over OT TO's from one OT to the next.

Then re-read the portion of your post below. There you have substituted the work "FOR" in place of "DURING". If the NF suggested procedure used the word "FOR" instead of "DURING", then I would agree that any unused OT TO's would accrue to the next OT, but they don't say "FOR", they say "DURING", so I don't agree with that interpretation. We kicked this issue around in North Carolina a few years ago and the State Office decided that the OT TO's do not carry over. But, if your State thinks they should, then they do.

Quote:

Originally posted by PAUMP
The wording says I get an additional one for each overtime period. Additional means that you add so therefore I am going to receive another one. It doesn't say that I max out on TO.
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HLin NC · #23 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 08:44pm

Since overtime is merely an extension of the second half and "all second half TO's carry over to overtime" then does that not indicate that the TO's should accumulate?

MJT · #24 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 09:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by HLin NC
Since overtime is merely an extension of the second half and "all second half TO's carry over to overtime" then does that not indicate that the TO's should accumulate?

It says "specifically" that "all 2nd half regulation TO's carry over." That is different then saying just all 2nd half or all 2nd half and overtime TO's carry over.

jfurdell · #25 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 21, 2005, 09:44am

Yeah, see, this is what I was talking about. This hasn't cleared up anything.

PAUMP · #26 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 21, 2005, 01:05pm

Jack051 I understand what you are saying but you are leaving out the word additional. Second half timeouts and 1 additional during each overtime period. So if I have 3 regulation timeouts and 1 OT TO and don't use any then I receive an additional TO for the second overtime period. I would agree with you guys if the word additional was not in there.

MJT · #27 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 21, 2005, 11:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PAUMP
Jack051 I understand what you are saying but you are leaving out the word additional. Second half timeouts and 1 additional during each overtime period. So if I have 3 regulation timeouts and 1 OT TO and don't use any then I receive an additional TO for the second overtime period. I would agree with you guys if the word additional was not in there.

The whole thing is it says "one additional plus all 2nd half regulation TO's NOT plus all other remaining TO's. I don't think any more minds will be changed, so I'm maxed out with this unless a new revelation is found.

Theisey · #28 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 22, 2005, 09:03am

I'm maxed out as well...
Bottom line is this, DO WHAT YOUR STATE SAYS TO DO.

Lets get back to the original question. Any other exmaples of ways team-B can score in standard unmodified NFHS OT?

irefky · #29 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 25, 2005, 04:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bjudge
Last year, Utah adopted a new overtime procedure. We place it on the 25 like in college. However we added one more modification, B can now score. If B scores,the game is over.

How did this work for you guys in Utah? What were the pros and cons with the change? Did you need to revise after a one year use?

In KY, we use the book version, TO's do carry over. This procedure is quiet confusing and does create problems with officials. If you don't use the procedure much, you forget about it. Most officials do go over it at half time if they feel OT is possible.

mikesears · #30 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 25, 2005, 05:04pm

For those who get the handbook, this year's handbook clears up the mystery of if timeouts are cumulative.

Page 43, Time-Out Section, Charged Time-Out.

One additional time-out is provided for use during each extra period. The unused second-half time-outs and the overtime timeout(s) are accumulative.

If you are using unmodified NFHS rules for overtime, timeouts accumulate for any subsequent overtime period(s).

[Edited by mikesears on Jul 25th, 2005 at 06:06 PM]