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Re: Pick-play
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Bob M. |
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Here are my two thoughts on this:
First, it was talked about holding "obviously away from the direction of the (eventual) pass." Perhaps the pass was going to be thrown to that receiver, and the QB switched to the receiver on the oppsite side of the field because the first receiver was held. Even though the hold was quite far away from the direction of the eventual pass, a potential advantage was gained, and I think this hold would have to be called. Also, on a potential DPI on the other side of the field from a pass--we can argue about whether this should be covered under PI rules or not considered a foul (as per the rule change), but if this is so far away from the play, it is unlikely that any official will be focusing on the play on the opposite side of the field. Not that the offical over there will not have some idea of what's happening, I don't think he would be watching closely enough, under most circumstances, to call a foul.
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If the play is designed to fool someone, make sure you aren't the fool. |
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REPLY: "Obviously" in my mind is intended to say that the shove/push wouldn't have an immediate material effect on the play. In your example, if B1 shoves A2 (ball in the air) who's only 5 or ten yards away from the pass, what happens if the pass is tipped and now A2 has been disadvantaged so that he doesn't have the opportunity to go for the ball. To me, you should have called PI in that case.
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Bob M. |
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Re: Pick-play
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REPLY: Ed
It seems like we agree on a pretty good number of things here. In fact, I believe that any disagreement we might have is based upon how each of us interprets what no longer a potential blocker means. For this discussion, Im talking only about contact initiated by the defense and (b) the contact is prior to the pass being in flight. Lets review:
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Bob M. |
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kentref |
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Ed
did you read the article I wrote for last Falls edition of the NF Officials Quarterly? It deals with exactly this subject matter.
Bob, can you post the article here as well. I agree that the bumping restiction is only in the NFL. Fed and NCAA B can bump or legally block potental blocker A until the ball is in the air. |
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kentref |
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Bob M. |
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Bob M. I agree with you...I think we all have been doing it that way... |
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Has anyone received the July 2005 edition of Referee? There's a "Chalk Talk" article talking about blocks involving eligibile receivers. Everyone should take a look as it shows 5 situations where a defender can block based on whether the A player is a "potential blocker" and it's right in line with Bob's posts. It's on page 45.
[Edited by ljudge on Jun 16th, 2005 at 07:17 PM] |
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kentref |
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Obviously the language of potential blocker is a little fuzzy, but I think B shouldn't be allowed to blantantly disrupt A's passing routes. If A is obviously trying to run past B, why should B be allowed to push/block/bump A? That goes back to advantage/disadvantage. Who's gaining the advantage in this situation? B. With that said, I DO NOT feel that you should flag this every single time it happens. That would make for an extremely long game. I do think there needs to be a comment said to the coaches or players. And if a situation occurs where B grossly disrupts A's route, like knocking him on his backside while he is trying to run past B, then that should be flagged since A was not presenting himself as a blocker. Actually, I planned on bringing this up at our state rules meetings here soon. This subject has officials on different sides, and clarification is definitely needed. Quote:
[Edited by grantsrc on Jun 17th, 2005 at 07:36 AM] |
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Bob M. You make a good argument re my previous points. I agree that until a receiver gets to the same yardline as the defender, the defender has the right to contact the receiver and the receiver has no right to initiate contact, even if the defender is in his way, (assuming of course that the play is a pass play). That said, when the receiver is going past the defender and the defender keeps initiating contact to disrupt the receiver's route, then I think you've got to address it. If the ball goes the other way I'll usually talk to the defender the first time. If he then keeps doing it, I'll use the flag. Position of the passer is a consideration. If the passer rolls right and my receiver/defender action is over on the left sideline, I'll probably just talk to the player.
Good discussion all!
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kentref |
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