Just because

[MJT]

Just because there have been no new rule questions the past few days, I thought I'd throw a few out there.

1. 3rd and Goal on the B3. Four seconds remain in a tied game. An attempted Field Goal from the B10 is blocked. B picks up the ball at the B7 and runs to the A10. During B's run, B blocks below the waist at the B15 and A tackles the runner by the face mask (15 yards). Time runs out in the game.

2. On a try, the holder on the B10, who while on one knee, throws a shuttle pass to the Back who after the snap had move laterally across behind the center. He caught the pass and ran off tackle for a score. Prior to the snap, the kicker had gone in motion towards the sideline as a decoy.

3. 1st and 10 on the A12. The Tailback takes a handoff and runs to the A18 where, as he is about to be tackled, tosses the ball forwards a teammate at the A20. The teammate muffs the pass and it is intercepted by B, who runs to the A10 is hit and fumbles - A recovers at the A10.

[KWH]

1. 3rd and Goal on the B3. Four seconds remain in a tied game. An attempted Field Goal from the B10 is blocked. B picks up the ball at the B7 and runs to the A10. During B's run, B blocks below the waist at the B15 and A tackles the runner by the face mask (15 yards). Time runs out in the game.

There are two options for Team B.
1) Since B gained possession of the ball with "Clean Hands", B may retain possession of the ball by declining A's foul. The BBW against B is then enforced. The game situation would be 1st and 10 for B at the B30, the period is extended for one untimed down, during which B may elect to attempt a 47 yard field goal to win the game.(NFHS 10-2-2)
2) B may accept the A foul "creating" a double foul. The game situation would be 3rd and goal for A at the A3, the period is extended for one untimed down, during which A may elect to attempt a 10 yard field goal to win the game. (NFHS 10-2-1c)

2. On a try, the holder on the B10, who while on one knee, throws a shuttle pass to the Back who after the snap had move laterally across behind the center. He caught the pass and ran off tackle for a score. Prior to the snap, the kicker had gone in motion towards the sideline as a decoy.

The try is no good. The ball became dead the moment the holder tossed the ball with his knee on the ground. (NFHS 4-2-2a Exp. Also see NHFS Casebook 4.2.2 SITUATION A)

3. 1st and 10 on the A12. The Tailback takes a handoff and runs to the A18 where, as he is about to be tackled, tosses the ball forwards a teammate at the A20. The teammate muffs the pass and it is intercepted by B, who runs to the A10 is hit and fumbles - A recovers at the A10.

Two options for Team B
1) If the illegal forward pass is accepted, 2nd and 9 for A on the A13. (NFHS 7-5-2B)
2) If the illegal forward pass is declined, 1st and 10 for A on the A10



[Edited by KWH on Feb 28th, 2005 at 12:14 PM]

[MJT]

Good for NF, but what about the differences for NCAA?

[Warrenkicker]

Originally posted by KWH

There are two options for Team B.
1) Since B gained possession of the ball with "Clean Hands", B may retain possession of the ball by declining A's foul. The BBW against B is then enforced. The game situation would be 1st and 10 for B at the B30, the period is extended for one untimed down, during which B may elect to attempt a 47 yard field goal to win the game.(NFHS 10-2-2)
[Edited by KWH on Feb 28th, 2005 at 12:14 PM]

I think you may be getting a little mixed up on the yard lines. With a foul by B on B15 the penalty should be half the distance. Otherwise the kick from B3 would not have been a field goal attempt (only a 114 yard attempt). Otherwise I agree with your rulings.

[KWH]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Warrenkicker

I think you may be getting a little mixed up on the yard lines. With a foul by B on B15 the penalty should be half the distance. Otherwise the kick from B3 would not have been a field goal attempt (only a 114 yard attempt). Otherwise I agree with your rulings.

May the fleas of 1000 camels infest my armpits! I did indeed screw the pooch.
The first option for B in question number one should read as follows:
1)Since B gained possession of the ball with "Clean Hands", B may retain possession of the ball by declining A's foul. The BBW against B is then enforced. The game situation would be 1st and 10 for B at the B7.5 yard line, the period is extended for one untimed down.(NFHS 10-2-2)

Good catch Warrenkicker!

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Kevin...just to extend those camel fleas further, consider your answer for #2. Since the kicker had gone in motion to the sideline prior to the snap, there's presumably no one in position to kick the ball. Therefore, the ball would become dead when the holder caught it with his knee on the ground, right? Tossing it with his knee on the ground is immaterial since the ball would already be dead. Or am I missing something?

[MJT]

Originally posted by Bob M.
REPLY: Kevin...just to extend those camel fleas further, consider your answer for #2. Since the kicker had gone in motion to the sideline prior to the snap, there's presumably no one in position to kick the ball. Therefore, the ball would become dead when the holder caught it with his knee on the ground, right? Tossing it with his knee on the ground is immaterial since the ball would already be dead. Or am I missing something?

That is correct for number 2, Bob.

[KWH]

Originally posted by Bob M.
REPLY: Kevin...just to extend those camel fleas further, consider your answer for #2. Since the kicker had gone in motion to the sideline prior to the snap, there's presumably no one in position to kick the ball. Therefore, the ball would become dead when the holder caught it with his knee on the ground, right? Tossing it with his knee on the ground is immaterial since the ball would already be dead. Or am I missing something?

Bob you are absolutly correct. Another miss!
27 years and I still say it is so much easier to stand on the field and see it live OR review films than it is to read a play OR take a test. Damned fleas...

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by KWH
...Bob you are absolutly correct. Another miss!
27 years and I still say it is so much easier to stand on the field and see it live OR review films than it is to read a play OR take a test. Damned fleas...

REPLY: You're so right...especially if the Federation is writing the test! 27 years for me as well. Next season will be my 28th.

[Jim S]

Originally posted by Bob M.
REPLY: You're so right...especially if the Federation is writing the test! 27 years for me as well. Next season will be my 28th. [/B]

Well, at least you got the math right Bob..... ;>)

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by Jim S

Well, at least you got the math right Bob..... ;>) [/B]

REPLY: Hey...my graduate degree is in mathematics. I can discuss partial integration of a multivariate polynomial, but I still make silly mistakes in addition!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by MJT
Just because there have been no new rule questions the past few days, I thought I'd throw a few out there.

1. 3rd and Goal on the B3. Four seconds remain in a tied game. An attempted Field Goal from the B10 is blocked. B picks up the ball at the B7 and runs to the A10. During B's run, B blocks below the waist at the B15 and A tackles the runner by the face mask (15 yards). Time runs out in the game.

2. On a try, the holder on the B10, who while on one knee, throws a shuttle pass to the Back who after the snap had move laterally across behind the center. He caught the pass and ran off tackle for a score. Prior to the snap, the kicker had gone in motion towards the sideline as a decoy.

3. 1st and 10 on the A12. The Tailback takes a handoff and runs to the A18 where, as he is about to be tackled, tosses the ball forwards a teammate at the A20. The teammate muffs the pass and it is intercepted by B, who runs to the A10 is hit and fumbles - A recovers at the A10.

1. In Cdn ball, we need to know where the ball was when the BBW occurred. Go up 5 yards from that spot and give B one untimed down.

2. The holder cannot pass the ball while a knee is one the ground. The play is whistled dead.

3. Flag the TB's offside pass (subject to penalty) at the A18. B's option: A-2D/4 @ A18, or A-1D/10 @ A10.