Thursday's STC situation...what would you do?

[Bob M.]

Here’s a play that actually occurred in a college game some years ago—1991 I think. Interested in hearing how you might handle it—and what you might do to ensure that nothing like it happens again.

Near the end of the game, UCLA is at USC’s 1-yard line going in for the winning score. On the snap, the QB muffs it. It rolls down his leg where he inadvertently kicks it into USC’s endzone. A mass of humanity ensues on the loose ball. Officials attempt to get to the bottom of the pile to determine who has it. After all but the last two players are pulled off, the umpire reports that there’s no ball at the bottom of the pile?!?! Looking around, R spots a USC UCLA (sorry my error) player, Brian Allen, holding the ball aloft in the back of the end zone dying to celebrate.

What do you do???


[Edited by Bob M. on Jan 6th, 2005 at 11:25 AM]

[MJT]

Originally posted by Bob M.
Here’s a play that actually occurred in a college game some years ago—1991 I think. Interested in hearing how you might handle it—and what you might do to ensure that nothing like it happens again.

Near the end of the game, UCLA is at USC’s 1-yard line going in for the winning score. On the snap, the QB muffs it. It rolls down his leg where he inadvertently kicks it into USC’s endzone. A mass of humanity ensues on the loose ball. Officials attempt to get to the bottom of the pile to determine who has it. After all but the last two players are pulled off, the umpire reports that there’s no ball at the bottom of the pile?!?! Looking around, R spots a USC player, Brian Allen, holding the ball aloft in the back of the end zone dying to celebrate.

What do you do???

No fumble rule, no matter what, cuz a muffed snap is muffing a backwards pass, so anyone can recover and advance. Well, in my opinion, you get EVERYBODY together and determine who saw what. If no one knows what happened or saw anything, it has to be a touchback, unless he runs it out. I don't know what else you can do, or what could be done to prevent it. Looking forward to others opinions. Bob, make sure you state yours eventually!

[waltjp]

If the players in the pile are all wrestling for the ball they obviously don't know where it is. Unless someone definitely saw something different it sounds like a touchback.

[Theisey]

Did a whistle ever sound? If so, when?
See where I might be heading with this. If I was the "R", I'd have a bad feeling about the time I saw the USCal player with the ball.

With the player clarification to a "UCLA" player having the ball, my initial worry that there is an IW is gone and I would agree this is a TD.
Sure would like to see a film clip of this one to see what all seven officials were doing.


[Edited by Theisey on Jan 6th, 2005 at 06:03 PM]

[PSU213]

I know it was said that no fumble rule applies since it was the snap that was muffed, hence a muffed backward pass. In NF it wouldn't matter vis a vis a fumble since there is no fumble rule.

That being said, here is what you know for sure...there was a muff of a backward pass that went into the EZ. The next time you saw someone in possession of the ball was a B player in the EZ. I suppose you could argue about whether or not to blow it dead with a TB right there or not, but I would think (unless, as already stated, someone definitely saw something else), you have to award the ball to B.

[cowbyfan1]

I agree, B ball on the 20, 1st and 10 unless game clock ran out.

[mikesears]

Everyone has answered how they would handle it. I will attempt to say how I would prevent it in the future.

On a goal line play, most officials are going to want to pinch in and help, but on a muffed snap, I think the short wings (or wings in a 5-man crew) should stay wide. The Back Judge should probably stay on the end line and would probably be in the best position to see if someone comes out of the pile with the ball early. In other words, trust the digging official to find the ball. Everyone else should be dead ball officiating.

I'd love to see the play in question to see what the other officials were doing.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: A big goof on this one...I meant to say that it was a UCLA (offensive) player holding the ball in the back of the end zone -- not a USC player!

[mcrowder]

Same theory - unless someone saw something different, this is a TD.

[MJT]

Originally posted by Bob M.
REPLY: A big goof on this one...I meant to say that it was a UCLA (offensive) player holding the ball in the back of the end zone -- not a USC player!

The only diff is TD instead of TB.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Here’s what actually happened: Once the U (Walt Wolfe) could find no ball at the bottom of the pile and they discovered Allen in the back of the endzone, referee Bill Richardson called all seven officials together. They had a player in the back of the endzone with the ball. Richardson wanted to know, “How did he get it?” No one knew. At that point he stepped into the field and signaled TD for UCLA. He announced over the mike, “After searching for the ball, an offensive player was discovered to have it in the end zone. By rule, we have a touchdown.”

The big question is how could such a thing happen and what could we do to prevent it. I think Mike Sears sort of hit the nail on the head. In such cases, there’s no need for all officials to attack the pile. If the deep officials in this game (B, F, and S) had stayed back they probably would have seen the ball come out of the pile in Allen’s possession. Additionally, they could have been watching for any ‘extracurricular’ activity that might occur. Let one (or two at most) officials dig, another stand above the pile to either give the next down or first down signal. The diggers tell the standing official who has the ball and he signals appropriately.