tell teams clock will start on RFP or not???

[MJT]

In the IA/LSU bowl game at the very end of the game Iowa was flagged for snapping the ball and spiking it before the FRP. The officials properly started the clock on the RFP after the penalty enforcement. My question is should the R have stated the clock would start on the RFP when he announces the penalty? He may have told the offense he was going to start it on the ready but not said it over the microphone. It would not have mattered as there was 14 seconds left but if only a few seconds left it could make a big difference.

Whether or not a mic is used, I believe we should let both teams know that the clock will start on the RFP in a situation like this. I don’t feel this is coaching, just making everyone aware of the status of the clock, similar to winding the clock before killing it on a 1st down by the sideline. Your opinions??

[schmitty1973]

I agree. I had a situation come up this year in flag during the playoffs. I was keeping the clock and there was a penalty that had a TD called back with 3 seconds left. The Offense went back to huddle and I yelled out to them that the clock starts on the whistle. Our WH was kind enough to give them an opportunity to get the play off, instead of being an A-hole.

As far as HS/JV goes, I think it's a good idea for the WH to tell the QB that the clock starts on the RFP. I think it would be a shame for a team to lose because the clock started and they couldn't get a play off in time because the QB didn't know the clock started.

[Theisey]

What a sec here. You say there was a play that had a TD scored by the offense and there was also a penalty on the offense?

The clock is supposed to start on the SNAP in this situation, not the RFP. Scoring points is a major clock stopper.

[Edited by Theisey on Jan 2nd, 2005 at 08:36 PM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by schmitty1973
The Offense went back to huddle and I yelled out to them that the clock starts on the whistle.

Nope, not unless that's some weird flag football rule.

[schmitty1973]

Originally posted by Theisey
What a sec here. You say there was a play that had a TD scored by the offense and there was also a penalty on the offense?

The clock is supposed to start on the SNAP in this situation, not the RFP. Scoring points is a major clock stopper.

[Edited by Theisey on Jan 2nd, 2005 at 08:36 PM]

Ok so I blew another one, now I know for next year. I thought the "last play was a running play" rule was in effect.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by schmitty1973

Ok so I blew another one, now I know for next year. I thought the "last play was a running play" rule was in effect.

The rule isn't based on running/passing play - either type of play can result in the clock starting either on the snap or on the ready (if the clock stops).

It's better to remember the clock status as being based on the result of the previous play (which is the rule). With no penalty, when would you start the clock? Okay - unless a team is illegally conserving or consuming time, start it at that point.

[STEVED21]

Originally posted by schmitty1973
I agree. I had a situation come up this year in flag during the playoffs. I was keeping the clock and there was a penalty that had a TD called back with 3 seconds left. The Offense went back to huddle and I yelled out to them that the clock starts on the whistle. Our WH was kind enough to give them an opportunity to get the play off, instead of being an A-hole.

Schmitty1973:

Three things wrong here.

1. Since the play was a TD, the clock would start on the snap.

2. Since there was an accepted penalty during the last play of the period, the period would be extended regardless whether the clock starts on the RFP or snap.

3. The R would NOT be an AH if he "let" the clock run out if the offense did not get the play off in three seconds. He would be aiding one team at the expense of the other.

[schmitty1973]

Steve,
I understand I messed up on the TD thing. Also, it was not on the last play of the game, so there would be no need to extend the period.

I understand about "aiding" the other team, but since it was intramural flag football, I don't think there's a problem letting the players decide the game. I could understand if it was a HS/JV game, but since it was flag I don't see the problem. That's my opinion anyway.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: MJT...to your original question, I agree wholeheartedly that you should inform both teams when the clock will start in such a situation. Any time there is an unusual situation near the end of a period where a clock start is critical to a team strategy, I feel it's incumbent on us to let both teams know. That is definitely not coaching; it's simply providing information so that the coach can decide what he wants to do.

[STEVED21]

It WAS the last timed down of the period if the clock ran out after you wound the clock on the ready for play. Any way you look at this play A was legally entitled to one more play without the officials bending the rules.

[schmitty1973]

The clock did not run out after the RFP, the WH did not blow the RFP until they were lined up. A got an extra play with 3 seconds left.

[jack015]

Originally posted by schmitty1973
The clock did not run out after the RFP, the WH did not blow the RFP until they were lined up. A got an extra play with 3 seconds left.

What Steved21 is saying is that if they did not get the play off after the RFP, then they are still entitled to an untimed down because the previous play in which the penalty occured then became the last timed down od the period.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by schmitty1973
Steve,
I understand I messed up on the TD thing. Also, it was not on the last play of the game, so there would be no need to extend the period.

I understand about "aiding" the other team, but since it was intramural flag football, I don't think there's a problem letting the players decide the game. I could understand if it was a HS/JV game, but since it was flag I don't see the problem. That's my opinion anyway.

For flag football, the players have no clue about clock rules, and there's generally no field clock. Best thing you can do is to announce the clock status (time remaining, and when the clock will start if stopped) before every play. I don't have my NIRSA book with me, but I believe it actually says to do so in the mechanics manual.