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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 08:28pm
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The only other thing that bugs me about football is our tolerance. In baseball as soon as the coach looked at us cross eyed, he was gone. Even to suggest that the rule was mis interpreted, ejection.
In football, we take a lot of crap before we even through the flag. Although, I am getting less tolerant. I had one game this year where the coach did not like my decision. Here's the play, Team A 1 and 10 from their own 9. Flag is up for the half. Running play, 2 and 10, through a pass, incomplete. I look over, the flag is still up. The QB comes out and says he is going to take a knee. Huh? Okay, your coach must know what he is doing. QB takes a knee, I blow the whistle. I look over, the flag is still up. I rule yards not gained, 1 and 10 for Team B at the Team A 9. Coach goes ballistic. I check with the timekeeper and sure enough, at the time of the whistle there was still 7 seconds left. A lot of chatter from the bench, I had had enough, throw the flag for OC, half the distance, first down and of course they score. My point is this, the coach should have known that after the incomplete pass, time would not start until the snap of the ball. Since the flag was still up, possibly there was time left. I am getting less tolerant with coaches that do not know the rules or do not know the time left, etc. Question a call is one thing, make negative comments, OC. 
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 09:21pm
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If you're tossing a coach for saying you mis-interpreted a rule you don't belong on the field. ANY field. That's one of the coaches rights in all sports.
In baseball it's called a protest. You know a protest. It's when the manager walks out onto the field and tells you that you don't know the rules, and you have to go to the scorebook and write down that the manaher says I don't know the rules, and then they have a committee that decides if you do or don't know the rules. When I teach umpires I tell them to accept ANY protest, for whatever reason. If you're right it doesn't mean anything. If you're wrong it should be changed. When I give rules clinics to caches I tell them, that if they feel they are right and the umps are wrong, to make the protest. If they find later that they were wrong they apologize and tell the ump to forget it. If the ump was wrong the situation needs to be changed and the ump needs to know what mistakes he is making.
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Jim Schroeder Read Rule 2, Read Rule 2, Read Rule 2!
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 09:49pm
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Fri Dec 17, 2004, 01:53am
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Umps...oh boy... back to our topic>
I am on a fine line here between MJT and mcrowder... I guess it would be okay after the penalty to tell the captain that they could free kick...But me personally. I would have to say I wouldn't. I am telling them that they can replay the down. If they knew that they could free kick the first time then they should know it for replaying the down. Like I said there is a fine line between preventive officiating and coaching...
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Fri Dec 17, 2004, 04:46am
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To Jim S. Let me clarify what I said. I was liberal in my comment about looking cross eyed and throwing him out. When I umpired, and even today in football, I let any coach question a call. I will grant a conference to explain what I did.
It is when they get personal that I get annoyed. There is nothing wrong with questioning a call, the interpretation, the application. It is after explaining it to them and they start to tell you that you don't know the game, bad call, etc. etc. that I will throw the flag. In baseball, I always allowed coaches to question a call. I would explain the rule. I even accepted comments about my strike zone. Again, it was only after the personal comments that I tossed them. All I was saying is that we are a lot more tolerant in football that we are in baseball. Perhaps it is because we are further away from the coaches and hear less, I don't know. As a coach in baseball, I saw a lot of umpires abuse their position and try to use their position of authority.
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Sat Dec 18, 2004, 11:54am
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Just so that I'm sure, can someone please tell me about this free kick?
Sitch: B receives the punt and signals a fair catch. They then inform the Referee that they'd like a free kick. Does this mean, and therefore the definition of a free kick is that, B gets a field goal attempt without A being allowed to rush? Basically, this is a cross between a field goal attempt and basketball's free throw. So then after a defensive (or offensive???) foul when A opts to scrimmage instead, they still retain the right to free kick.
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Pope Francis
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Sat Dec 18, 2004, 03:52pm
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You got it. Basically, if R elects to free kick it's nothing more than a kickoff except you place the free kick line for R (now K) right where the interference took place. The teams line up 10 yards apart, timing rules are the same, the ONLY difference is that the kick can score a field goal. If that happens by the way NO time should run off the clock. And no, the new R team (the original punting team) can NOT rush because it would be a dead-ball encroachment foul just as on a normal kickoff.
Now, if the team that was interfered with asks to put the ball in play by snap and there's a foul by the defense (eg: defensive pass interference), the option to put the ball in play by free kick or snap is availab.e Consider the following: K's ball 4th and 10 from their own 1 yard line. K kicks to K's own 40 where he interferes with R's opportunity to catch the ball. R chooses an awarded fair catch and puts the ball in play 1st and 10 from the B 40. If B fouls on first down (eg: DPI) the penalty will be an automatic first down and it will be A's ball on B's 25. A can THEN request the ball be put in play by free kick...and yes, it can score a field goal. I don't have my rules book handy. There are multiple rules to cover this. Under rule 4 "putting the ball in play" section 1, and in section 4.3 as well (Out of bounds and inbounds spots). Hope that helps. If I mis-stated anything someone feel free to correct me.
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Sat Dec 18, 2004, 06:30pm
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Agreed that when it becomes personal that's the end. I always tell new umps. "That's a crappy call!" (not too loud or long)is an opinion, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. (they are also enitled to keep it to themselves) "YOU made a crappy call" is a personal attack, and we deal with it appropriately. Of course sometimes their 'opinion' requires that my opinion be "you're done for the day!"
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Jim Schroeder Read Rule 2, Read Rule 2, Read Rule 2!
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Wed Dec 22, 2004, 05:28am
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I would not tell the coaches they can free kick in either situation. That is up to them to know. Now if a coach is not certain and they ask me if they can then I would info them they can. This way I am assisting them in the rules of the game and not in coaching the game. I could also care less at the level I am calling. That should be the same from 1st grade to the NFL.
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Jim Need an out, get an out. Need a run, balk it in.
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Thu Dec 23, 2004, 02:27pm
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Jim, I agree with you.....
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Thu Dec 23, 2004, 03:19pm
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I'm with Cowbyfan1, to not inform the coach of this unique rule unless directly asked. He's supposed to know it.
I'll explain everything regarding the penalty options as defined in the PENALTY: section of the fair catch rules. No where in that section does it say anything about a free kick. That stuff is defined as a subsection of the fair catch rules. If Mr. Head coach asks, I'll tell him just like I would for any other rule(s) question he may have.
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Fri Dec 24, 2004, 01:03am
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Steven S. Smith
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