Another

[kdf5]

The kick occured on 3rd down.

[MJT]

Originally posted by Jim S
I have a TD for B in H.
Also take another look at E. A's ball @ the 1.

E is B's ball cuz 6-2-7 says ball is awarded to R if "any scrimmage kick becomes dead inbounds anywhere while opponents are in joint possession."

[MJT]

Originally posted by kdf5
The kick occured on 3rd down.

Doesn't matter, the ball was "kicked" not muffed. 6-2-7 says ball is awarded to R if "any scrimmage kick becomes dead inbounds anywhere while opponents are in joint possession."

If it was muffed by the punter and we had joint possession or a recovery by A, then A ball for 4th down.

[kdf5]

Originally posted by MJT

Doesn't matter, the ball was "kicked" not muffed. 6-2-7 says ball is awarded to R if "any scrimmage kick becomes dead inbounds anywhere while opponents are in joint possession."

If it was muffed by the punter and we had joint possession or a recovery by A, then A ball for 4th down.

We're talking about E right? 6-2-3...Any kicker may catch or recover a scrimmage kick while it is in or behind the NZ...

K is in team possession during a kick. A kick ends when a player gains possession or when the ball becomes dead by rule. R gains possession of the ball when a player of R catches or recovers the ball.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by Bob M.
OK folks…here’s my first offering for the off-season board. It’s a day early. My goal is to attempt to address normal game situations rather than extreme ‘what-if’ stuff. However, I also intend to include a twist or two on my play to address the needs of the “Stump the Chump” bunch. Please indicate in your response whether you’re answering according to NCAA or Federation rules.

PLAY: A’s ball, 3/17 from A’s 10. Punter A10’s kick is blocked at A’s 3. It…
(a) rolls out of bounds at A’s 2
(b) rolls into A’s end zone and over the end line
(c) rolls into A’s end zone where it is recovered on the ground by A15
(d) rolls into A’s end zone where it is recovered on the ground by B76
(e) is recovered by A67 at A’s 1 yardline.

OK…those were the easier ones. Now for you “Stump the Chump” enthusiasts…

(f) is recovered jointly by A55 and B75 at A’s 2
(g) rolls toward the sideline where both teams let it lie believing it has gone out of bounds. The official eventually blows the play dead with the ball inbounds at A’s 3
(h) rolls into A’s endzone where it is jointly recovered by A15 and B56.
(i) It rolls to the endline but remains in the endzone. Neither team attempts to recover it. The covering official blows it dead.

OK, lets try this again and see if I can do better

(a) R 1/goal @ A-2
(b) Safety, R awarded 2 points
(c) Safety, R awarded 2 points
(d) TD R
(e) K 4/26 @ A-1 clock on ready

(f) R 1/goal @ A-2
(g) R 1/goal @ A-3
(h) TD R
(i) TD R

[Jim S]

Originally posted by MJT

Doesn't matter, the ball was "kicked" not muffed. 6-2-7 says ball is awarded to R if "any scrimmage kick becomes dead inbounds anywhere while opponents are in joint possession."

If it was muffed by the punter and we had joint possession or a recovery by A, then A ball for 4th down.

MJT, where do you get joint possession out of:
"(e) is recovered by A67 at A’s 1 yardline."?

[Jim S]

Originally posted by James Neil
OK, lets try this again and see if I can do better

(a) R 1/goal @ A-2
(b) Safety, R awarded 2 points
(c) Safety, R awarded 2 points
(d) TD R
(e) K 4/26 @ A-1 clock on ready

(f) R 1/goal @ A-2
(g) R 1/goal @ A-3
(h) TD R
(i) TD R

Jim
(e) clock not on ready..... clock never stopped (hopefully)
(i) safety... never had a change of possession, ball is still in K team possession. And we're talking about a kick, and force, here.

[MJT]

Originally posted by Jim S

MJT, where do you get joint possession out of:
"(e) is recovered by A67 at A’s 1 yardline."?

Ok, kdf5 and Jim, I am out of wack, it is not a joint possession, so it would be A's ball at the 1 and 4th down in situation E. I am going to work on my adjusted final, hopefully correct answer.

[WVREF]

G: A's ball 4th down @ the 3 yard line

[MJT]

Originally posted by Bob M.
OK folks…here’s my first offering for the off-season board. It’s a day early. My goal is to attempt to address normal game situations rather than extreme ‘what-if’ stuff. However, I also intend to include a twist or two on my play to address the needs of the “Stump the Chump” bunch. Please indicate in your response whether you’re answering according to NCAA or Federation rules.

PLAY: A’s ball, 3/17 from A’s 10. Punter A10’s kick is blocked at A’s 3. It…
(a) rolls out of bounds at A’s 2
(b) rolls into A’s end zone and over the end line
(c) rolls into A’s end zone where it is recovered on the ground by A15
(d) rolls into A’s end zone where it is recovered on the ground by B76
(e) is recovered by A67 at A’s 1 yardline.

OK…those were the easier ones. Now for you “Stump the Chump” enthusiasts…

(f) is recovered jointly by A55 and B75 at A’s 2
(g) rolls toward the sideline where both teams let it lie believing it has gone out of bounds. The official eventually blows the play dead with the ball inbounds at A’s 3
(h) rolls into A’s endzone where it is jointly recovered by A15 and B56.
(i) It rolls to the endline but remains in the endzone. Neither team attempts to recover it. The covering official blows it dead.

My final answer, I think?!?!?


A. B's ball at the A2. Clock on the snap.
B. safety
C. safety
D. TD for B
E. A's ball from the A-1 4th-26. Clock on the snap.

F. B's ball at the A2 - joint recovery after kick goes to B. Clock on snap.
G. B's ball at the A3 - unrecovered goes to B. Clock on snap.
H. TD for B - joint recovery after kick goes to B
I. Safety, not a TD for R cuz it does not meet definition of a fumble.

Thanks to Jim S for referring to clock status. We need to try to remember to add this to our post, as the case book doesn't cover this important part of these situations.

[MJT]

Originally posted by WVREF
G: A's ball 4th down @ the 3 yard line

No, because 6-2-7 says "ball is R's if any scrimmage kick becomes dead inbounds between the goal lines hwile no player is in possession."

[Patton]

Originally posted by Jim S
I have a TD for B in H.
Also take another look at E. A's ball @ the 1.

I just read Case Book 6.2.3 Situation B. I knew that A could recover a kick in or behind the neutral zone and advance, but I never really thought of this situation on third down. I now agree that in (e) it is still A's ball.

So my FINAL ruling is:

So my complete ruling is (NFHS):

(a) B's ball at the A2.
(b) safety
(c) safety
(d) TD for B
(e) A's ball 4th and 26 from the A1
(f) B's ball at the A2 - joint recovery after kick goes to B
(g) B's ball at the A3 - unrecovered goes to B
(h) TD for B
(i) Safety

[Jim S]

MJT, same answer as one to JN.
Clock in (e) does not start on snap, does not start on ready.....(HUH)... should never stop. There is no timing rule in FED that says we stop the clock after a scrimage kick.
We do stop it after a change of possession, not applicable to this case.
We stop it to award a new series, not applicable to this case.
We stop it for a variety of other reasons none of which apply to this play.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by Jim S
MJT, same answer as one to JN.
Clock in (e) does not start on snap, does not start on ready.....(HUH)... should never stop. There is no timing rule in FED that says we stop the clock after a scrimage kick.
We do stop it after a change of possession, not applicable to this case.
We stop it to award a new series, not applicable to this case.
We stop it for a variety of other reasons none of which apply to this play.

Thanks for the correction Jim. Your right, the clock never stopped in (e). That's what I meant by saying on the ready. (yah right)
As for (i) , this isn’t the first time I’ve been confused by 6-2-7‘s “between the goal lines or...bla...bla...bla... inbounds anywhere”. Hopefully it’ll be the last. Safety all the way.

[Edited by James Neil on Dec 3rd, 2004 at 02:57 AM]

[Warrenkicker]

Originally posted by Warrenkicker
(a) B's ball at A-2
(b) safety
(c) safety
(d) touchdown
(e) B's ball at A-1

(f) B's ball at A-2
(g) B's ball at A-3
(h) safety
(i) safety

[Edited by Warrenkicker on Dec 2nd, 2004 at 01:44 PM]

Wow. Missed which down it was. I see how (e) should still be A's ball.

I initially had (h) being a TD but then thought about it some more and found rule 7-4-3, confused myself, and edited my post.