Make it up?

[Snake~eyes]

Facemask topic made me want to start a new topic.

Do you guys make the number up if you don't know it? What is your position on doing this?

[ref5678]

I would NOT make one up for sevreal reasons
1. If for some reason you pick out a number who is not on the field you loose credibility in the coaches eyes instantly
2. If you pick a kid who is on the field he very well may get a nice chewing for costing the team 5 or 15 yards when it very well may not be his fault.
3. Your lying to a coach, and that in my eyes is a serious breach of ethics.
if you dont know the number simply tell the coach "sorry coach couldnt get a number in the pile", or something else appropriate for the situation.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by ref5678
I would NOT make one up for sevreal reasons
1. If for some reason you pick out a number who is not on the field you loose credibility in the coaches eyes instantly
2. If you pick a kid who is on the field he very well may get a nice chewing for costing the team 5 or 15 yards when it very well may not be his fault.
3. Your lying to a coach, and that in my eyes is a serious breach of ethics.
if you dont know the number simply tell the coach "sorry coach couldnt get a number in the pile", or something else appropriate for the situation.

Very well said!

[MJT]

Do NOT make up a number! BAD things, as mentioned above can happen!!

[waltjp]

I've never made up a number. If I didn't catch it during the play I'll try to identify him in some other way, such as 'defensive lineman' or 'tackler'.

I once called a hold on R during a free kick. I told the coach that it was #6 who was guilty. He so adamantly argued that #6 didn't play on kick returns that I started to question myself...until their next kick return when #6 is lined up right in front of me!

[ljudge]

Here's a technique a few people have told me they used but I myself have never tried this.

Go in the huddle and blame someone. "Hey 65 why did you call him a bleep?" Quickly you'll find out because the player will say something like "I didn't say it...he said it...and point to the offending player."

I'm sure most of you would agree this is bad (as do I), but it has worked for some people. Police use this a lot when they're trying to get suspects to rat on each other.

[cdnRef]

Surprisingly coaches understand even if they don't like it. When I WH I'm terrible at remembering the numbers -- too much other stuff going on and too little processing power I guess. If they're not doing something like holding the spot 50 yards downfield I do ask my side guys to both come in a ways and grab the number and just tell the coach when I invariably forget. If there is no number I will do as somebody else suggested and at least try to identify the player to the bench by position or something so the coach has somewhere to start.

[Jim S]

Remember also that getting the number is a courtesy to the coaches. Sometimes it's just not possible. ie: the facemask call in the middle of 5 guys trying to tackle the runner. When you don't get it tell em so. Up front. They are the ones with the video tapes. If it matters they can figure it out later.
And, if you haven't already, you will once in a while report the number of the guy who was fouled instead of the guy who committed the foul. IR by the official. (Inadvertant Reporting)

[Bob Lyle]

Originally posted by Jim S
...They are the ones with the video tapes. If it matters they can figure it out later.

The above is the best reason not the make a number up. In all levels above JV, the games are videotaped, at least where I work. If you make up a number, the coach will know about it when he reviews the tape and your reputation will go into the toilet. With the amount of input that coaches have into who gets playoff games, the last thing that you need is a coach who identifies you as a liar.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by Bob Lyle

The above is the best reason not the make a number up. In all levels above JV, the games are videotaped, at least where I work. If you make up a number, the coach will know about it when he reviews the tape and your reputation will go into the toilet. With the amount of input that coaches have into who gets playoff games, the last thing that you need is a coach who identifies you as a liar.

That's a load of BS, I don't think coaches care that much if you tell them the wrong number, it wouldn't ruin your reputation. I'm sure they get over it real quick. But I'm not justifying making up a number.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Bob Lyle
The above is the best reason not the make a number up. In all levels above JV, the games are videotaped, at least where I work. If you make up a number, the coach will know about it when he reviews the tape and your reputation will go into the toilet. With the amount of input that coaches have into who gets playoff games, the last thing that you need is a coach who identifies you as a liar.

That is a bunch of crap like Snake said. For one not everyone is at the mercy of a coach when it comes to the playoffs. And depending on what coach it is, they will not be listened to anyway. So what if they see we made a mistake. They are going to claim we made more than giving them the wrong number. You know things like clipping or holding that they think we totally missed. Who cares what a coach thinks? If that was the case, no officials I know would ever work the playoffs it coaches held that kind of power.

Peace

[Bob Lyle]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Who cares what a coach thinks? If that was the case, no officials I know would ever work the playoffs it coaches held that kind of power.

Peace

For months we have had complaints about the enourmous power some coaches have over playoff assignments. You ask who cares what a coach thinks? From the writings on this forum, it seems that a lot of officials care what a coach thinks.

Your second statement is more absurd than the first. No matter how much or how little power coaches have over playoff games, someone will work them. I'd bet that the same number of officials will work the playoff games whether the coaches select the officials or the assignor selects the officials. It may be different officials but the games will be played and they will have officials. Literally, your statement says that you don't know any officials that the coaches would select for the playoff games.

If all you work is Pop Warner football, that would be true. If your football group is so bad that it never gets selected for post season assignments, then it would also be true. That says more about you and your abilities than the power of coaches to select playoff officials.

In my original post, I only made the obervation that if coaches have input into the post season assignments, it doesn't help your chances if you're labeled a liar. Making up numbers is not a way to establish integrity.

Snakeeyes says that the coaches will get over it. You might be surprised what the coaches remember. I know that integrity is a difficult concept for you to master so your head may hurt for a while.

[Tom.OH]

A few years ago in a Jr High game the Home coach said the visitors were kicking his players, I asked him if he had a number. He said he didn't have one. I looked at him and he smiled, remembering that in the 1st Qt I did not have a number and he said I should pay more attention to getting the players numbers when calling fouls!

[schmitty1973]

I had a problem with this last night, there was a DPI. And of course I didn't get a number, or even remember what the guy looked like. But I did remember that it was the guy that dropped the ball. Once I explained that they all shut up for a little bit. Granted, this was intramural flag and not HS varsity, so they'll get over that stuff a little quicker.