Strange Special Teams Play, What's the call?

[jks7777]

NCAA Rules.

Team A is punting to Team B from Team A's 6 Yard Line.
Ball is punted across the neutral zone.
Due to the short punt players from Team B avoid the ball.
Ball bounces on the Team A's 18 yard line and hops back into the endzone. Punter from Team A touches the ball 2 yards deep in the endzone.

No player from Team B touches the ball.
First player to touch the ball is the punter after the ball crosses the neural zone twice.
What is the call? Touchdown for Team B or Safety.

I could not find an answer for this situtation in the NCAA rule book. What are your thoughts?

J

[mikesears]

Originally posted by jks7777
NCAA Rules.

Team A is punting to Team B from Team A's 6 Yard Line.
Ball is punted across the neutral zone.
Due to the short punt players from Team B avoid the ball.
Ball bounces on the Team A's 18 yard line and hops back into the endzone. Punter from Team A touches the ball 2 yards deep in the endzone.

No player from Team B touches the ball.
First player to touch the ball is the punter after the ball crosses the neural zone twice.
What is the call? Touchdown for Team B or Safety.

I could not find an answer for this situtation in the NCAA rule book. What are your thoughts?

J

I know you are looking for NCAA answer but I thought I'd post the NF answer here.

The force that put the ball into A's endzone was the punt. If it became dead there, it would be a safety. It can't be a touchdown for B because B never had possession.

Also, the ball would remain live when A possessed it because they recovered the punt behind the neutral zone; therefore they may advance the ball. Team A simply touching the ball is insignificant.

[Dommer1]

The touching by A in the endzone is ignored by rule. So B can not elect to take the ball at the spot of touching and get a TD, as there was no touching.

Ball stays alive in the endzone.

It's a free-for-all!

It would be extremely unlikely for that ball to come to rest without anyone trying to secure it, so give it a couple of seconds, and you'll know if you have a safety or a touchdown.

[PSU213]

Fed. rules here also.

The force the put the ball in the EZ was the kick, therefore if it becomes dead there it would be a safety (assuming, of course, that players were trying to gain possession of the ball--not all that much of a stretch). If B/R recovered the ball in the EZ, it would be a TD.

Also, just because the punter touches it does not mean it becomes dead.

Finally, once it is in the EZ, no option Re. safety, TB, etc. can change...that is determined by the force that "put" the ball in the EZ (which in this case was the kick).

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by jks7777
NCAA Rules.

Team A is punting to Team B from Team A's 6 Yard Line.
Ball is punted across the neutral zone.
Due to the short punt players from Team B avoid the ball.
Ball bounces on the Team A's 18 yard line and hops back into the endzone. Punter from Team A touches the ball 2 yards deep in the endzone.

No player from Team B touches the ball.
First player to touch the ball is the punter after the ball crosses the neural zone twice.
What is the call? Touchdown for Team B or Safety.

I could not find an answer for this situtation in the NCAA rule book. What are your thoughts?

J

There is a Canadian rule that if a punt is falling into a group of players, and not very downfield, it is to be blown dead and R takes 1D at the apex of the flight of the ball. Is 12 yards short enough to call this play dead? I would say so.

If it was not blown dead, then K has to "give yards" (not be within a 5 yard halo of the ball). At this point, only onside K players may legally touch/recover the ball. P in the EZ is a legal recovery - this is a LIVE BALL.

[Theisey]

NCAA: since this is what you asked for.
Team-A doesn't have a whole lot of options. If a team-A player picks up the ball in this kick play in the EZ, the played is killed immediately. If they leave it lying there and no one attempts to get it (highly doubtfull), we kill it after a period of time and award it to team-B for a TD.
If team-B recovers, it's a TD as well.

[MJT]

Originally posted by Theisey
NCAA: since this is what you asked for.
Team-A doesn't have a whole lot of options. If a team-A player picks up the ball in this kick play in the EZ, the played is killed immediately. If they leave it lying there and no one attempts to get it (highly doubtfull), we kill it after a period of time and award it to team-B for a TD.
If team-B recovers, it's a TD as well.

I am digging all over in my NCAA book under rule 6-3-1 to get how this works in NCAA.
Theisey or other NCAA guys correct me if I am wrong on this. Anytime the ball crosses the NZ and touches the ground, a player, or official, if K recovers the ball is dead immediately. The ball would belong to K for a new series (AR 6-3-1a), unless it is in the EZ, then it is a safety (AR 6-3-1IV). If the ball crosses beyond the NZ, B touches it and it still comes back behind the NZ, A's ball when recovered, no different than if not touched by B (Not covered by an AR).
Now if the ball does not touch the ground, a player, or an official, and the ball crosses the NZ and is blown back, it can be advanced by K or R. To retain possession K would have to make it to the LTG, otherwise 1st down for R(AR6-3-1B)

In NF, K can advance anytime the ball is behind the NZ, whether or not it 1st crossed the NZ.

[jks7777]

thanks for all the responses!

I should mention that the punter did not just touch the ball, but he took possesion of the ball in the endzone.
Does this change anything?

J

[MJT]

Originally posted by jks7777
thanks for all the responses!

I should mention that the punter did not just touch the ball, but he took possesion of the ball in the endzone.
Does this change anything?

J

In NCAA, it is definitely a safety AR 6-3-1IV.

In NF, if he is downed, or downs himself in the EZ, safety, but in NF, he can advance and if he makes in to the LTG it will be K's ball 1-10.

[Theisey]

Originally posted by MJT
....(snip)...
Anytime the ball crosses the NZ and touches the ground, a player, or official, if K recovers the ball is dead immediately.

NCAA: Looks like you have the concept down. The way to really look at this is by definition, that a scrimmage kicked ball has crossed the NZ if it touches the ground, a player, or official while beyond the NZ. If any of those three conditions did not occur, then the kicked ball did not cross the NZ. That covers the case where the ball is blown back behind the NZ, blocked or was a very short kick that did not even make it to the NZ.

The ball would belong to K for a new series (AR 6-3-1a), unless it is in the EZ, then it is a safety (AR 6-3-1IV).

New series for team-A only if the ball was touched by team-B while the ball was beyond the NZ. Ball dead at the point team-A recovered. 2 points for team-B if that recovery was in the EZ. Team-A cannot advance a kick that has been determined by definition to have crossed the NZ no matter where the recovery by team-A is completed.

If the ball crosses beyond the NZ, B touches it and it still comes back behind the NZ, A's ball when recovered, no different than if not touched by B (Not covered by an AR).

Partially correct. Yes, a Team-A recovery kills the play and they get a new series since team-B had touched the ball beyond the NZ.
But if the ball had simply touched the ground beyond the NZ, and is recovered by team-A behind. Play over. Team-B takes over. By definition, the kicked ball crossed the NZ, but something we called continuity of downs has not been broken.(see rule 5)

Now if the ball does not touch the ground, a player, or an official, and the ball crosses the NZ and is blown back, it can be advanced by K or R. To retain possession K would have to make it to the LTG, otherwise 1st down for R(AR6-3-1B)

Correct. As noted by definition this ball did not cross the NZ.