Offensive Holding

wh52 · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 22, 2004, 07:08am

Had an interesting conversation with a JV coach last night. TD was called back due to OH. Player A put both hands under defensive players shoulder pads and pulled him to the ground. Coach went nuts claiming that it was legal because his hands were inside the frame. I responded with " no player shall grasp, grab,or block with closed hands inside the frame. He said that's horse**** and I didn't know the rules. I thanked him for that information and said you have two timeouts left.

James Neil · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 22, 2004, 07:22am

Quote:

Originally posted by wh52
He said that's horse**** and I didn't know the rules. I thanked him for that information and said you have two timeouts left.

I would have added "and one unsportsmanlike left"

Rich · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 22, 2004, 09:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by James Neil

Quote:

Originally posted by wh52
He said that's horse**** and I didn't know the rules. I thanked him for that information and said you have two timeouts left.

I would have added "and one unsportsmanlike left"

Yup. And pull is the word that makes it a hold.

Ed Hickland · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 22, 2004, 09:28am

Ask him how you get a player to the ground without holding him.

I agree his description of your explanation would qualify him for 15 more yards.

ABoselli · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 22, 2004, 09:32am

Ask him how you get a player to the ground without holding him.

Maybe he talked him into it?

JV coaches - love those guys.

chiefgil · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 22, 2004, 09:35am

You certainly qualify to be a gentleman of style and grace. I think you handled the situation correctly.

Butthead JV coaches are in training to become even bigger buttheads when they move up to varsity. And they still don't know the rules.

Good job!

Forksref · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 22, 2004, 09:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by chiefgil
You certainly qualify to be a gentleman of style and grace. I think you handled the situation correctly.

Butthead JV coaches are in training to become even bigger buttheads when they move up to varsity. And they still don't know the rules.

Good job!

Rules? We don't need no stinkin' RULES!

WyMike · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 22, 2004, 11:34am

How about a B player 'pulling' down an A player? Defensive Holding? Do you allow it and where?

MJT · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 22, 2004, 12:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by WyMike
How about a B player 'pulling' down an A player? Defensive Holding? Do you allow it and where?

2-3-5b says "defensive players may push, PULL, or ward off an opponent in an attempt to get at the runner."
So it depends on when and where, which is usually obvious. I have called defensive holding on a D-lineman who was tackling an O-lineman as he tried to release and get a block on a linebacker. Obviously def holding on receivers, and so on.

MI Official · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 22, 2004, 12:22pm

on an option play around the end. QB keeps and the Defender tackles the pitch man. holding? I would say yes because, although he is a potential blocker, he is BEHIND the runner and not faking.

WyMike · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 22, 2004, 02:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by MJT

2-3-5b says "defensive players may push, PULL, or ward off an opponent in an attempt to get at the runner."
So it depends on when and where, which is usually obvious. I have called defensive holding on a D-lineman who was tackling an O-lineman as he tried to release and get a block on a linebacker. Obviously def holding on receivers, and so on.

That is where I was leading to. The word 'pull' within the line obviously contemplates the fact in order to 'pull' one must have a grasp of something, right?

I have flagged DH but only once and away from the play entirely. But the B player totally took down an A player by wrapping him up in a huge bear hug and taking him to the ground.

Now if the NFHS would only define 'Pull' and 'Sling' in Section 2...

Quote:

Originally posted by MI Official
on an option play around the end. QB keeps and the Defender tackles the pitch man. holding? I would say yes because, although he is a potential blocker, he is BEHIND the runner and not faking.

This I would agree with. But the pitchman can still be 'blocked'. Now what if the pitchman was forward of the QB? DPI?

[Edited by WyMike on Oct 22nd, 2004 at 03:59 PM]

mcrowder · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 22, 2004, 03:18pm

In Fed, can you have DPI behind the NZ? If not, then I can't see DPI here unless the QB is behind the line and pitchman in front (and there's enough separation for you to tell the difference, and the hit came at just the right moment, and ....... heck - it would be quite a situation to make this DPI).

MJT · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 22, 2004, 04:12pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mcrowder
In Fed, can you have DPI behind the NZ? If not, then I can't see DPI here unless the QB is behind the line and pitchman in front (and there's enough separation for you to tell the difference, and the hit came at just the right moment, and ....... heck - it would be quite a situation to make this DPI).

In NF you cannot have DPI behind the NZ 7-5-7

mcrowder · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 22, 2004, 04:14pm

Didn't think so. Makes the DPI on the pitch man pretty much not possible except in the most bizarre of circumstances.

cmathews · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 25, 2004, 12:01pm

WyMike...."I have flagged DH but only once and away from the play entirely. But the B player totally took down an A player by wrapping him up in a huge bear hug and taking him to the ground."

if it is away from the play and has no effect on the play, never and I can't stress it enough never call holding... a personal foul if it is warranted or something, but never holding....Holding is purely an advantage/disadvantage call..and if it is away from the play there is no advantage...a stern warning and maybe a don't be foolish, but not a hanky...BTW, did you guys get any playoff games up your way??