Disqualification

[wolfpup27]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Here's an email I got this morning from the OP. I refrained from posting emails I got yesterday because I normally won't post private emails, but I think you should see the mentality of this coach:

This goes right to the heart of the discussion. No, I am not looking for
anyone to agree with me, I am looking for understanding more of the
mindset of officials, and quite frankly, you've given me a perfect
understanding of at least one of them. You have shown me that rules have
no meaning for you until they become personal. If the player was
swearing, by rule, he should have received his first personal foul; the
second time would have warranted ejection. Is that not what the rules
state? No, but for you, my friend, when it became personal is when you
decided to take something out of your pants. Officials like you give
officiating a bad rep, and I am sorry for that. I don't know you, nor do
I really care to, but it is quite obvious that you are officiating for
all the wrong reasons. You don't know me, and I really don't care for
you to either. I know the motivation that I have for working with the
youth of our city, and it is to make better citizens of them. People
like you hamper that honest work. Yes, they are lovable youngsters when
they are given a fair shake and see that the adults around them play by
the same rules.
-----------------------------

What he fails to understand is that I was trying to be preventive in getting the kids to stop the swearing. I stepped across the neutral zone and warned the kids to clean up their mouths. Then a kid backs me down and tells me to mind my own damned business and I shouldn't flag that?

I asked the OP how he would react if a kid did that to him, BTW, but I get the impression that he feels we're all just hired help and he's the one who's doing all the work. Sad, really, but his mentality is typical of today's youth coaches, at least from my perspective.

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Oct 19th, 2004 at 12:39 PM]

Point of clarification here, if I may: this is what Rich originally said to me about his recent ejection:

I threw a kid out on Saturday for telling me to "mind my own damned business" after I was polite enough to warn the team about the repeated f-bombs they were tossing. Darling children :-)

--Rich

I responded:

BTW: If a player is swearing, penalize him. On the second offense disqualify him. Follow your rules (9-5), not just because a kid hurt your feelings. Be professional, not polite. Flag them for every "f-bomb" they drop and if you can pin it on a specific player, toss him according to the rules. I think your example here is a perfect indication that at least one official tosses players on a whim.

Rich responded:

The last sentence seems to imply that I ejected that kid on a whim. You clearly don't read well as I certainly did warn the lovable youngsters and the player that was ejected only was ejected after he (1) swore at me and (2) told me to mind my own damned business.

I responded:

This goes right to the heart of the discussion. No, I am not looking for anyone to agree with me, I am looking for understanding more of the mindset of officials, and quite frankly, you've given me a perfect understanding of at least one of them. You have shown me that rules have no meaning for you until they become personal. If the player was swearing, by rule, he should have received his first personal foul; the second time would have warranted ejection. Is that not what the rules state? No, but for you, my friend, when it became personal is when you decided to take something out of your pants. Officials like you give officiating a bad rep, and I am sorry for that. I don't know you, nor do I really care to, but it is quite obvious that you are officiating for all the wrong reasons. You don't know me, and I really don't care for you to either. I know the motivation that I have for working with the youth of our city, and it is to make better citizens of them. People like you hamper that honest work. Yes, they are lovable youngsters when they are given a fair shake and see that the adults around them play by the same rules.

Rich responded:

A curse word is not a personal foul, BTW. An official is entitled to use preventive officiating to stop actions before they result in penalties. But when a kid backs an official down and swears directly at the official, there's a difference.

Let me ask you this, Mr. Head Coach: If a kid did to you exactly what he did to me -- come towards you, get in your face and tell you to MYODB, would you bench the kid? Do you think I deserve less respect than a coach? Like it or not, that's just the way I see it.

Please don't respond.

But, I actually did respond:

Rich, you know that I do greatly appreciate your responding to my questions. And I truly believe that these forums are extremely constructive in helping to understand not only the rules, but the mindset of the people that we come in contact with every week. It helps me to understand your thinking as an official, and hopefully, you can learn something about coaches.

I beg to differ with you, "dropping an f-bomb" as you put it, is unsportsmanlike conduct, is it not? Is that not a penalty? I know in our league, and even in our state, such obscenities will be flagged because we have a mandated sportsmanship policy. To answer your question, yes, I would bench him, and I have even suspended a player for his actions, even removed him from the team. I know and understand these players way better than any official does on the field, because I work with them everyday. In this particular case, if that player was mine, and you had not ejected him, he would be buffing the pines, because I don't tolerate that type of behavior. I am sorry that there are not more coaches that have that philosophy. You had the opportunity to quell the storm by flagging it earlier, but you chose not to, until a player got up in your face and made it personal. You were both wrong, and until we come to that realization, I suspect that there will be continued ejections along this line because no one is teaching both the players and the adults; coaches and officials included.

Case in point; this season I had one of my players ejected because he threw a punch. It just so happened to be one of my starting defensive linemen and son of one of my assistant coaches. I saw the incident; happened right in front of me. Did I get all over the referee? No, I got all over the player and my coach for questioning the call. Both of them argued with me that the other player was hitting him while he was down. My teaching point was that there is nothing that another player does that deserves to have a punch thrown at him; end of discussion. That is what I teach my own children, that there is nothing that anything that anyone does to you that deserves your retaliation. Does that stand to good reason?

Sorry, that this has been such a long response/posting, but I thought that I owed it to those that were positively contributing to its success to know the whole story here, and not taken out of context. Thank you again, one and all for your help. Yes, even you, Rich.