Who's ball

[GIRef]

4th down and 2 on K's 40. Punt is blocked and is rolling on the ground behind the line. There is a scramble for the ball and it is deflected ahead to the 45 yd line where K recovers the ball. The ball becomes dead at that spot. Is it 1st down for K or R?
NFed Rules

[chiefgil]

Where was it blocked?
Was the ball just lying there when it was blown dead?
Who, if anyone, had possession of the loose ball?

If it was blocked in or behind the NZ, and the ball hit the ground behind the NZ, and then bounded forward to R's side, and K RECOVERED the ball; then it's 1/10 for K.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by GIRef
4th down and 2 on K's 40. Punt is blocked and is rolling on the ground behind the line. There is a scramble for the ball and it is deflected ahead to the 45 yd line where K recovers the ball. The ball becomes dead at that spot. Is it 1st down for K or R?
NFed Rules

What does deflected mean? If deflected means that the ball was accidentally touched by R or K, or is directed by R, so that it goes to the 45, then K 1D/10 @ 45.

If it is directed by K, rule as an offside pass by K, R 1D/10 @ POP.

[ljudge]

No chiefgil, the touching is ignored on the block. It's still the kick and R **never touched the ball beyond the ENZ so it's R's ball where K recovered it.

The assumptions are the following:

1) ** - at least the post didn't indicate that the ball was touched beyond the ENZ by R
2) The "deflection" (he means muff) occurred behind the NZ

[GIRef]

Let me clarify that the ball was blocked and rolling on the ground, it was muffed and unintentionally bumped (not batted or passed) forward as a result of BOTH teams trying to recover the loose ball. It was finally recovered by K at the 45 where it was beyond the line to gain.

If anyone can cite a reference I will look in the rule book again, however I have spent about an hour looking in the rule book and case book with no luck. Everything in the case book includes some sort of penalty and there was no penalty involved in this play.

[keystoneref]

We need more information. Was the ball muffed by R beyond the neutral zone? Was R blocked into the ball thus causing the muff if it was beyond the neutral zone? If R was blocked into the ball then the touching is ignored. If the ball was muffed beyond the neutral zone by R then the ball belongs to whichever team recovers it 1st and 10. If the ball was not muffed by R beyond the neutral zone then the ball belongs to R at the recovery spot, 1st and 10.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

NF 2-23-2: "A kick ends when a player gains possession or when the ball becomes dead while not in player possession."

Blocks, muffs, none of these things matter - it's still a kick until either someone picks it up or the ball becomes dead.

6-2-2 & 6-2-3 tell us that anyone can catch, recover, and advance the ball in or behind the expanded neutral zone.

Once the ball crosses the expanded neutral zone, though, it is treated in all respects like a normal punt.

If K is the first to touch the ball after it crosses, then it is first touching, and R will be able to take the ball at that spot. If R is first to touch, then the ball is fair game, and K will get the ball at the point of their recovery.

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Other rule references:

6-2-4 & 6-2-5 detail what happens when K touches a scrimmage kick downfield. 5-1-3f & 5-1-3g tell us who gets the new series awarded.

Here are your rule references for not throwing a flag:

NF 9-7-2 tells us: "No player shall bat a loose ball other than a pass or a fumble in flight, or a low scrimmage kick in flight which he is attempting to block in or behind the expanded neutral zone." This tells us that the block of the kick is legal.

NF 2-2 defines batting: "Batting is intentionally slapping or striking the ball with the arm or hand." You describe muffs, defined in 2-26: "A muff is the touching or accidental kicking of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to secure possession." Muffing a loose ball is not a foul.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by GIRef
Let me clarify that the ball was blocked and rolling on the ground, it was muffed and unintentionally bumped (not batted or passed) forward as a result of BOTH teams trying to recover the loose ball. It was finally recovered by K at the 45 where it was beyond the line to gain.

If anyone can cite a reference I will look in the rule book again, however I have spent about an hour looking in the rule book and case book with no luck. Everything in the case book includes some sort of penalty and there was no penalty involved in this play.

REPLY: I believe that the NF rule you're looking for is NF 5-1-3. Take a look at that one and see if it does not answer your question.

[Hand Signals]

I believe the real question here is whether or not R touched the ball once it passed the ENZ. If in fact they did....1st down K. If they didn't...then it is still a kick that put the ball where it is and it would be R's ball.....1st down.