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[Edited by SJoldguy on Oct 8th, 2004 at 10:58 AM] |
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Our crew had almost the identical play a few weeks ago. A was in punt formation and the punter bobbled the snap in the EZ, the punter took off running, B grabs him, spins him around and he heaves the ball downfield before falling over.
We had intentional grounding and ineligible receiver's, a multiple foul. I gave them the choice of ineligibles, which was 5 yards and replay 4th, intentional grounding for a safety or declining both and their ball 1st and 10 at A's 8. B took the safety. In light of this post were these the correct choices? |
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Throwing an illegal forward pass from behind your own goal line is the same as being tackled there - iy's a run that ended in the end zone.
Now I'm not even sure if the illegal touching should be there as this wasn't a legal pass and eligibility requirements apply only to legal passes. I'll have to ponder this now. |
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That's why I'm asking, in light of the multiple foul situation. 10-2-3 says B can, when there are 2 or more live ball fouls by the same team,...the offended captain may choose which one it shall be, or he may decline all penalties.
If he can decline all penalties then wouldn't B get to take the ball at the previous spot on downs based only on the fact that there are multiple fouls on A? Which would take precedent here: 10-2-3 or 10-5-4? |
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If B declines all fouls, the ball is dead behind the goal line.
I believe 10-5-4 is the over-riding ruling here. It goes aganst the Fed way of thinking to have their own foul help them. I'm still not convinced that you can have illegal touching on an illegal pass. It says eligibility rules apply only on legal passes, and eligibility is tied directly to illegal touching. Then again, on any other pat of the field, if the QB threw to an ineligible while under pressure, we'd flag the IT only probably. A connundrum. |
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Bob M. |
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there are 2 fouls on this play. Illegal forward pass and illegal touching by ineligible. 7.5.10 table shows illegal touching only applies to a forward pass not a legal forward pass. Also in the other posting if b intercepts and scores and there is holding in the end zone by a, the holding would have to occur after the interception in order to accept the penalty and the score.
Therefore b can accept either penalty. |
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Wow, lots of good thoughts in this thread. Here's what I've gotten out of it so far:
[still NF rules]
The question that I don't have a definitive answer for yet is this:
Now, if you have a foul like illegal motion that's simultaneous with the snap (or through some bizarre twist, the play ends with a touchback), the second argument doesn't hold up. But I still think you end up with a safety. |
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Bob M: You are right. This was a play that happened several weeks ago and I never gave it much thought until this thread. After posting, I then decided to read the rule book (duh!) and the only foul you can have is the IG as you can't have ineligibles downfield on a running play which is what the IG is. Our crew learned some good lessons from this post and that play.
My question though is this: Say you had IG on A from in the endzone and holding on A at A's 10 (in my example or this thread we have a multiple foul right?). Does 10-2-3 apply where both penalties can be declined or does 10-5-4 exclude 10-2-3 by rule and make the IG an automatic safety in this scenario. [Edited by kdf5 on Oct 11th, 2004 at 12:05 PM] |
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Bob M. |
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