Untimed down?

[waltjp]

Ten seconds remain in the second period. A has the ball on B's 4. The clock is running. B encroaches before the snap.

The ball is set at the 2 yard line after enforcement of the penalty. The clock starts with the ready for play and time expires before A can snap the ball.

Should the period be extended for an untimed down?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by waltjp

Should the period be extended for an untimed down?

No - the only time you have an untimed down is when the foul occurs during the last down of a quarter itself. Because there was no snap, the down has not started.

If, however, you believe this is an attempt by B to illegally run out the clock, you can start the clock on the snap rather than on the ready.

[waltjp]

Thanks. That's the way I was leaning but it did spark a bit of a debate.

[Axe Man]

Sorry guys, wrong answer. I had this last Friday night at the end of the first quarter and after looking it up, I found that I had kicked it.

Case book 3.3.3 Situation C: Near the end of the third period, it is third and 4 for A from B's 48-yard line. A1 advances to B's 45 and during the run there is holding by B1. The penalty is accepted. At the end of the down, there are three seconds remaining in the period. Because the penalty was the only reason for the clock to be stopped, it is started with the ready-for-play signal and the period ends before A snaps the ball.

Ruling: A is entitled to an untimed down becuase it accepted the penalty for a foul which occured during the last timed down of the period. Therefore, the period must be exstended with an untimed down in this situation even though time remained and A had a chance to snap the ball before time expired.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

No - the only time you have an untimed down is when the foul occurs during the last down of a quarter itself. Because there was no snap, the down has not started.

If, however, you believe this is an attempt by B to illegally run out the clock, you can start the clock on the snap rather than on the ready.

Like has been said, in NFHS this is wrong.

When the clock runs out, blow the whistle and give the time-out signal. Then call for one untimed down and run it.

In NFHS the last down cannot contain an accepted penalty.

--Rich

[cowbyfan1]

But an encroachment is a dead ball foul and not during the last TIMED down. In this case it was not a timed down as the down would begin with the snap. Fed in rule 3-3-3 highlights timed.
They also point out that if time ran out during a sucessful field goal or if it was out during a try, and the kicking teams accepts a suceeding spot enforcement, then the period is not extended.

[waltjp]

Originally posted by Axe Man

Case book 3.3.3 Situation C: Near the end of the third period, it is third and 4 for A from B's 48-yard line. A1 advances to B's 45 and during the run there is holding by B1. The penalty is accepted. At the end of the down, there are three seconds remaining in the period. Because the penalty was the only reason for the clock to be stopped, it is started with the ready-for-play signal and the period ends before A snaps the ball.

The difference here from my situation is live ball vs. dead ball foul. The encroachment is a dead ball foul.

I remembered this case book play and immediately thought untimed down, but after thinking it over I'm not so sure.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Mark had it right in his response. The period is not extended in this case since the foul did not occur during the last timed down. And it is within the R's discretion to use NF 3-6-3 to start the clock on the snap if he believes that B's encroachment was an attempt to illegally consume time.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Like has been said, in NFHS this is wrong.

When the clock runs out, blow the whistle and give the time-out signal. Then call for one untimed down and run it.

In NFHS the last down cannot contain an accepted penalty.

--Rich

Whoops. Reading is fundamental. I saw the case play and immediately forgot that the OP posted a DEAD ball foul.

Mark is right. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.