Throwing Flags on Coaches

[eventnyc]

This will be my first year officiating at the Varsity Level. Our Association has a draft system, where eligible lower level officials are introduced to referees in need of crew members. Hopefully, they have had an opportunity to work with you on the lower level and know something about your abilities. After the first meeting, where the eligible officials are introduced, you have a brief opportunity to speak with (interview or kiss up) to the referees. Granted the system isn't perfect, but it seems to work. A week later the draft is held. The lowest rated crew picks first and so on, up to the top. Most of the eligible officials are separated by only hundreds to tenths of a point. Coaches rate officials. The lower level officials are also rated by their varsity level counterparts, when working together on lower level games. There is a mix of the two ratings and your rating is then adjusted accordingly. Which brings me to my point. During my interviews with Varsity Referees, I was surprised to hear from two or three referees the following, "Oh, by the way, we don't throw flags on coaches." Or, "I am the only one that can throw a flag on a coach." Not surprisingly was the fact that the referees who told me that, were rated in the top six out of twenty six. I had an opportunity to be selected by the fourth highest rated crew (which would have guaranteed me a playoff game) and the twenty fourth. I will not be working a playoff game this year! Any thoughts on this? Does your association have similar problems?

[mikesears]

I don't know about other crews, but I trust my crew to penaltize a coach with only a good reason. We've only had 2 UC's on coaches as a crew in 4 years together.

[Simbio]

Well that's an unusual system for assigning offiicals, at least its unusual for me. Maybe we're just different from the rest of the country. In Utah, an official's ranking is based on part I and part II test results, meeting attendance, and evaluations that should take place each game. Officials are either in the top twelve of their position (100), top twenty-four of their position (200), top thirty-six of their position (300), or part of the rest (399). There are no set crews, varsity officials are shuffled each week. Usually the higher profile games will have 100 level officials assigned to them. Rankings play a big part when the playoffs come around. Last season, our board impemented a program where 100 and 200 officials will fill out a crew evaluation sheet for at least six of their games, this is so that officials should be evaluated almost each week. Its a good system in my opinion. I have to admit, though, I think it would be cool to be considered for a draft. The only problem I can think of is what if you didn't like your crew? Are you stuck with them for life?

Our association always emphasizes sideline control. We use the sideline warning to our advantage. If a sideline is acting up, coach included, we'll give a sideline warning which costs them nothing, just lets them know we are serious. We give additional sideline warnings if needed. As far as flagging the coach, he'd really have to deserve it, but we do throw unsportsmanlikes from time to time. If you let it go, it could spiral out of control really quick. Since we stressed using sideline warnings, we really haven't had too much trouble. I think not calling unsportsmanlike on a coach that deserves it is just asking for problems. Combine that with having coaches rank the officials that they like and you've got a conflict of interests that is unfair. I could be wrong, but that is just what I think....

[ljudge]

I would focus on the things that you're in control over which is doing your best to become a excellent official. I've been told we used to have a ref that told his crew "if I have a flag, you have a flag." Wow!!! That's a huge anomaly and a tough pill to swallow. Luckily, he's retired now and I never had to deal with that.

Seriously, don't get caught up in organizational things especially if you have no control over them. I'm entering my first year as a referee and I told my crew don't worry about big, high-profile games. I like their attitude because not one of them is worrying about that kind of stuff. We're all on the same page in that we're concentrating on getting good as a unit and working well together.

Our assigner told our organization in our general assembly of officials "if you don't like your schedule, don't complain...get better."

I have 2 first-year guys and I told them to focus on the four things they DO have control over which is HUSTLE, COMMUNICATE, BE ON TIME, AND BE IN SHAPE.

I wish you the very best of luck. Remember you only have one rookie season....make the best of it!!!

[Bob Mc]

, "Oh, by the way, we don't throw flags on coaches." Or, "I am the only one that can throw a flag on a coach."

So my questions would be...what do these guys do on any of the other penalties that are possible in the game? Do they pick the ones only they can flag? Do they assign penalties in the pre-game? "Okay in tonights game U why don't you take care of all the holding calls, I as R will handle all PI calls, LJ you get PSK...and I don't want to see anybody calling things their not assigned."

Yes, one has to use discretion on flagging a coach, but I have yet to see anything--except here--that says only white hat can flag coach.

[Axe Man]

Definitely a different system for getting crew members. I don't like the sentaments of the referees who told you that they don't throw flags on coaches but I do understand it. When you tell me that they are rated in the top 6 out of 26 it makes sense. When you ratings are done by coaches only, like they are here in Indiana, you at some point have to question what to do. We are told repeatedly in meetings that we are to control the sidelines and the coaches. However, the coaches rating is how our playoff assignments are based and the Athletic Directors get officials for all thier games. The question becomes do you flag a coach because it is the right thing to do per the rules or do you hold off and not risk getting a playoff game or another game at that school. I know that my crew talks about doing what is best for the game and not worrying about the grades. But we still want to work as far into the playoffs as possible. Quite a fine line we have to walk.

[JRutledge]

Axe,

We have a very similar situation outside of the bigger cities of Illinois. What I found out about that system is that ADs did not have a lot of choices. If they banned a crew at home, they might easily see them on the road. And many of the contracts are done so far in advance that it might not work to ban crews for future games. I will admit the system is not perfect (AD's assign games), but having assignors is not always a picnic either.

We also have coaches’ ratings (as just one factor for post-season) and it can be a problem as well. I will admit that it can cross your mind when you throw a flag (give a T or eject a coach). But like someone that works very close said with the IHSA says, “the rating system is not for the officials." I have kind of been in that mind set for some time now, because there is nothing you can do about it. If a coach wants to hold a call against you is petty in my mind. In our system it is a struggle to get ratings most of the time. So the more ratings help you than what an individual rating can be. But I will admit that the rating system has just made me make the action more obvious to everyone.


Peace

[Forksref]

Can you tell me if the coaches'ratings of officials are broken down into sub-categories? I'd like to see the specific areas that I need to work on.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Forksref
Can you tell me if the coaches'ratings of officials are broken down into sub-categories? I'd like to see the specific areas that I need to work on.

In our state we do not allow coaches to make any comments outside of the rating. Coaches are not qualified to tell officials what they need to work on. They can say if one crew is better than another. This is one of the better ways to give the assignor of the playoffs some independent evidence of what officials are doing and what coaches feel about them. But this is not an "evaluation" system to help officials get better. Lower level officials cannot even get rated. Evaluations have to come from your association or veteran officials. BTW, officials in our state can rate each other the same way coaches do.

Peace

[Simbio]

Would you or wouldn't you agree that having coaches and athletic directors rating and assigning games really undermines the integrity of the officials working the games? As Axe Man has stated, it makes you think twice about flagging a coach, or maybe even the team. Hopefully, the crew goes out and gives a solid performance, not worrying about offender, but focusing on doing their best and making the right calls. You would hope that the coaches could recognize a good crew for what they are, but I wonder if coaches are more inclined to select officials that they know won't call "this" or will call "that." I would fear this would make the officials more lenient to certain teams that they know will be in the post season, as opposed to the weaker programs, giving the better school the edge not only in their skills, but with the officials as well.

With that being said, what do you think the pros and cons are with having coaches rank officiating crews as opposed to other officials ranking officials? Thoughts?

[Bob Lyle]

Originally posted by eventnyc
This will be my first year officiating at the Varsity Level. Our Association has a draft system, where eligible lower level officials are introduced to referees in need of crew members. Hopefully, they have had an opportunity to work with you on the lower level and know something about your abilities. After the first meeting, where the eligible officials are introduced, you have a brief opportunity to speak with (interview or kiss up) to the referees. Granted the system isn't perfect, but it seems to work. A week later the draft is held. The lowest rated crew picks first and so on, up to the top. Most of the eligible officials are separated by only hundreds to tenths of a point. Coaches rate officials. The lower level officials are also rated by their varsity level counterparts, when working together on lower level games. There is a mix of the two ratings and your rating is then adjusted accordingly. Which brings me to my point. During my interviews with Varsity Referees, I was surprised to hear from two or three referees the following, "Oh, by the way, we don't throw flags on coaches." Or, "I am the only one that can throw a flag on a coach." Not surprisingly was the fact that the referees who told me that, were rated in the top six out of twenty six. I had an opportunity to be selected by the fourth highest rated crew (which would have guaranteed me a playoff game) and the twenty fourth. I will not be working a playoff game this year! Any thoughts on this? Does your association have similar problems?

I started out in an association like yours. I was delisted after two years because of coach problems before I ever got to the varsity level. That was 10 years ago. Now I work in an association where the other officials control the ratings. It allowed me some time to get the major mistakes out of my game without worrying about what the coaches think.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by Simbio
Would you or wouldn't you agree that having coaches and athletic directors rating and assigning games really undermines the integrity of the officials working the games?

With that being said, what do you think the pros and cons are with having coaches rank officiating crews as opposed to other officials ranking officials? Thoughts?

I started out in an association like yours. I was delisted after two years because of coach problems before I ever got to the varsity level. That was 10 years ago. Now I work in an association where the other officials control the ratings. It allowed me some time to get the major mistakes out of my game without worrying about what the coaches think

Coaches and ADs don't really have a command of the game. I think everyone would agree football officiating is the most complicated of all the sports with the complex rules, number of officials on the field and officiating coverage. You ask how can an AD administer and a coach coach and still be able to provide an objective critique of officials?

There is no simple answer on how to improve officiating but the antiquated AD/coach selection procedure is a definite impediment to overall improvement to officiating.

[Axe Man]

I have no doubt that AD's in our area know the difference between a quality and sub par official. And as Rut mentioned, we have games contracted a number of years in advance. Our 2007 season has 2 openings. The thing that I struggle the most with is the system I currently work under is not the one I was "raised" as an official in. I began many moons ago in Intramural Sports. Since I now run the IM program at Purdue, you could say that I haven't really advanced all that far. My point is that as I grew as an official, I did the game assigned to me and then went on. If I did a good job, I got other games. If not, I didn't. The system in Indiana is based totally on coaches/AD vote. There is no mandate by the state that they vote or not. Since I have been with my current crew, we get a vote each year from a school that the crew has never worked. Sorry, I got off on a rant. The thought I have is that we go do the game to the best of our ability. If the coach is unhappy, then that is life.

[ref18]

I don't really think the coaches should have any say in which officials are assigned to their games, unless there has been a proven conflict between that coach and an official.

In my area, all games are assigned by an assignor, and are assigned individually. So the concept of coaches rating officials is foreign to me.

As a rookie, we are started off at the HL, that way all we have to worry about is the sticks. The LJ is primarily responsible for the coaches and team bench areas. So I haven't really had that much experience with a coach on my side of the field let alone one that I had to flag.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BushRef


We're so short on officials in my area that even as a rookie, I've already worked 2 Varsity games. I've found that while the coaches are gonna say their piece, most of em come around a few minutes later and it's all good.

I can see you have never been to some school in my area.

Peace