revised question on penalty during touchdown

[timharris]

A=OFFENSE B=DEFENSE

hello

im sorry but im still confused after my last question, let me try again i apologize if it gets confusing or misunderstanding. during a play in which (A) scores a touchdown, team (B) is called for a penalty of holding by federation rule if im not mistaken the penalty can be accepted and (A)can have the touchdown also. this is where it confuses me, if team (B)is called for a holding penalty on the touchdown, is it then marked off on the try for point because if it is this would be half the distance which would only be a 1.5 yard gain for team (A). to me it just doesnt sound right maybe im just looking at it wrong or seeing something thats not there. thanks for any clarification.



tim

[Bill D]

You are correct. A gets the TD AND may take the distance penalty at the succeeding spot, which is the try. In your example, it is half the distance on the try. While that may not seem to be much of a penalty, that's the rule. Prior to last year, the rule was that when A scored a TD, the foul was declined by rule. It was felt that may allow for "cheap" B fouls, hence the change.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by timharris
A=OFFENSE B=DEFENSE

hello

im sorry but im still confused after my last question, let me try again i apologize if it gets confusing or misunderstanding. during a play in which (A) scores a touchdown, team (B) is called for a penalty of holding by federation rule if im not mistaken the penalty can be accepted and (A)can have the touchdown also. this is where it confuses me, if team (B)is called for a holding penalty on the touchdown, is it then marked off on the try for point because if it is this would be half the distance which would only be a 1.5 yard gain for team (A). to me it just doesnt sound right maybe im just looking at it wrong or seeing something thats not there. thanks for any clarification.



tim

Bill D is right on.

1.5 yards on a try may not seem significant, but several coaches I know decide to go for two points rather than a single point when they are at the 1.5 yard-line.

[JugglingReferee]

It cracks me up to learn of the differences between Canadian football and American football.

I would like to know how "holding" is a "cheap" foul?

Team A accomplished their of scoring a TD, even with B holding. Kudos for team A - decline the foul and move on.

[Theisey]

The use of those words "cheap" foul does not really apply at all in this example. As you point out, a hold is a hold.
It was only last year, where the NF changed to allow the yardage to be applied to the TRY. Auto-declined was the rule.

If NF wanted to send a message for a cheap foul, such that team-B is really penalized in yards, they would allow for the penalty to carry over to the f/k. I'm referring to personal-foul type situations, not holding or 5yd FM fouls. Not that it matters, but at least NCAA allows for a carry over of PFs to the f/k.

I think to most of us know what a cheap foul against a team looks like.
One recourse is, team-A may only gain 1.5 yards on the TRY but that Team-B player could be DQ'd for the game.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by Theisey
...If NF wanted to send a message for a cheap foul, such that team-B is really penalized in yards, they would allow for the penalty to carry over to the f/k. I'm referring to personal-foul type situations, not holding or 5yd FM fouls. Not that it matters, but at least NCAA allows for a carry over of PFs to the f/k.

REPLY: Tom, I'm sure you remember back when Fed defensive fouls on TDs did indeed carry over to the succeeding k/o. However, it was all fouls--not just the PF variety. Then they changed it to have them automatically declined, and now we're back here where they can carry over to the try.

[Theisey]

Just returned from my first meeting of the year, so now I'm enlightened for 2004.
Yeah, I can recall the tweaking that was done to the rules about fouls on scoring plays.
Wish they would just fix'm and leave'm alone.

[jjrye22]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
It cracks me up to learn of the differences between Canadian football and American football.

I would like to know how "holding" is a "cheap" foul?

Team A accomplished their of scoring a TD, even with B holding. Kudos for team A - decline the foul and move on.

There was a discussion earlier this week about A having a penalty during the last timed down (the illegal forward pass question) and team A gets another shot - since the game can not end on a penalty... Is that also true in Canada? I seem to remember (as a highschool player-so I didn't really KNOW the rules) that someone told me the game could not end on a defensive penalty, but could end with an offensive penalty.

Or do I misremember?

James

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by jjrye22

There was a discussion earlier this week about A having a penalty during the last timed down (the illegal forward pass question) and team A gets another shot - since the game can not end on a penalty... Is that also true in Canada? I seem to remember (as a highschool player-so I didn't really KNOW the rules) that someone told me the game could not end on a defensive penalty, but could end with an offensive penalty.

Or do I misremember?

James

In Canada, the game cannot end on any penalty, unless declined by the non-offending team. In the case above with team A, declining the foul gives A a TD, which is not a good thing.

We can flag this act as an "offside pass", which carries a penalty of no more legal yards can be gained after the pass. B could accept the illegal act and end the game without a TD by team A.