Scrimmage Kicking Question

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by ljudge
I was in agreement with everything until I read Uncle Ernie's post. Are we sure it's PSK? The rule says "K does not have posession of the ball when the down ends." It doesn't say AFTER the down ends, but WHEN the down ends.

First touching doesn't apply in this case because after the first touch R fouled which cancels FT.

I'm now thinking this is a foul during loose-ball play.

Bob M - are you out there????

REPLY: I'm here...and I'm in agreement with Tom Heisey that for both NF and NCAA, R/B is in legal possession of the ball (i.e. they are next entitled to put the ball in play by snap or free kick), and therefore PSK does apply. I believe that this is the intention of both rule codes although the Fed, in particular, does not define possession of a dead ball in any meaningful way. As far as the first touching for Fed, R's right is cancelled if they touch the ball and thereafter foul or if the penalty for any foul committed during the down is accepted. Since it was K's bat that knocked the ball into R, R's touching is ignored. So R didn't touch the ball prior to their foul. And if K wishes to accept the penalty for R's PSK foul, R cannot take the ball at either of the first touch spots (R's 1 and R's 12). The NCAA illegal ("first") touching privilege of R is also cancelled if the penalty for any foul committed during the down is accepted or if there are offsetting fouls. So the result would be the same.