Threats/Attacks

[Simbio]

I suppose you guys are right, but as far as little league goes, I've officiated in the same one the whole time. A lot of officials are refusing to do it anymore. It's a shame.....

[JMN]

Originally posted by Simbio
A lot of officials are refusing to do it anymore. It's a shame.....

You know, I hear this a lot about youth leagues and unless we try even harder to bring more accountability and sportsmanship back into the game, I feel like we fail the kids and fail as officials. I guess the question is one of motivation: Why are we out there?

So, when I hear this comment, it's usually either from guys making excuses to get out of Saturday assignments or officials that need encouragement to put up with some of the crap that we receive.

Certainly, I'm not advocating becoming punching bags for immature fans, but we should work hard to preserve the sportsmanship and competitive nature of the game.

[Rich]

Where I live we choose what games we work as we don't have assigning associations. And I will not work the Saturday youth football ever again. I work a lot of Mondays and Thursdays and every Friday night. That's enough for me.

Now, I only got that attitude because one of the youth programs "fired" me this season because I flagged two of their coaches for USC. One came out to the hash mark to argue with a back judge and the other was profane. They can decide who they hire, but it will never be me again. And since all the programs here seem to be related in some way, I won't work any of them. I'll sleep in instead.

I don't owe these youth programs anything and they don't owe me anything. But they shouldn't complain when they have to hire high school students and parents to "work" their games.

[Forksref]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Where I live we choose what games we work as we don't have assigning associations. And I will not work the Saturday youth football ever again. I work a lot of Mondays and Thursdays and every Friday night. That's enough for me.

Now, I only got that attitude because one of the youth programs "fired" me this season because I flagged two of their coaches for USC. One came out to the hash mark to argue with a back judge and the other was profane. They can decide who they hire, but it will never be me again. And since all the programs here seem to be related in some way, I won't work any of them. I'll sleep in instead.

I don't owe these youth programs anything and they don't owe me anything. But they shouldn't complain when they have to hire high school students and parents to "work" their games.

Amen to Rich. Saying no to a youth league is not "failing the kids." The parents have failed the kids if they model lousy sportsmanship and care so much about winning that they abuse officials and allow the coaches to do the same. There are some good leagues out there, according to some posts, but the others can fend for themselves when they want officials. As for me, I never do non-school events anymore.

[Simbio]

Hi JMN,

I agree with what you said and I hope it doesn't sound like I was wimping out and quitting etc. There are a lot of officials, good officials that have been officiating for years and have just finally had enough. It gets to a point that it's no longer fun for them. I suppose after so much time, you either reach the point that you're numb to it all, or you burn out.

And I agree that we all, as officials, need to be stiffer when enforcing unsportsmanlike behavior and that needs to be done in any sport. I think this year is the hardest I have been as far as controlling the game. I'm not dropping my flag for little ticky tack things, unless I feel that it's only going to get worse. I've been using the "Sideline Warning" to my advantage (since I am a wing official) and have found it very effective on unruly coaching staffs. The first one costs them no yards, but lets them know that you're not going to put up with it. If they continue, throw it again and give them 5 yards. I don't think we should be Nazis on the field, but something has to be done, and it must be done by all of us.

Anyone else want to put in their two cents? Opinions?

[ABoselli]

These youth leagues are run by 'fans' and coached by 'fans' and watched by 'fans'. Not a real coach or administrator in the bunch. No one has any sense of perspective or decorum. They all are new to Fed rules and think everything is NFL. They've got these kids running reverses and flea flickers when they can't even line up straight over half the time. If they would spend as much time teaching these kids the fundamentals of football as they do drawing up their kooky plays and complaining about rules they have no understanding of, maybe they'd have better players coming out of those leagues.

Safety, learning, fairness and competition should be the focus of these leagues, in that order. More often than not, the first three get the short shrift.

[Forksref]

Don't forget teamwork and learning how to win and lose.

[seanireland]

We had a flag football tournament for some 6-7 year olds. It was their championship game. The rules stated that a player who scored couldn't run the ball if his team was winning. A TD is 7 pts. no try. Well, of course, the home team scores and the fans go wild. Then the same number kid for the visitors scored. Three TDs each for these two kids. Toward the end of the fourth quarter, the fans were getting belligerent. The one team fumbled, and the defense recovered. The rule is for this league that a fumble is dead and belongs to the fumbler. Parents were livid. The game ended at 21-21. When I put the ball overhead to indicate the end of the game, the administrator came out on the field. "This is a championship game!!!! We have to do the 10 yard sudden DEATH overtime!!" I said to him, "No way." I went to the announcers' booth and declared, "If this is a championship game, Congratulations, you have co-champions." He announced it over the loud speaker and people seemed to come back to earth. One of the kids came up to me and said, "But nobody won!!" I replied, "Everybody won! Now go get your hot dog soda and trophy" Sometimes people forget who the players are. During the fourth quarter, I tried to make sure I had a clear path to the car. Even the game administration began losing their heads.

[William C]

Basically these LL need to be run by a group that will go to bat for the officials - in case there are problems.
Like I said earlier - we are backed 100% and we know we don't have to deal with a lot of crap from the coaches and fans.
One other poster noted that these leagues were run by coaches / fans / parents etc. and in a lot of cases that's correct. In those cases - the coaches aren't going to police themselves - as they are generally the problem.
I've ref'ed for a loooooong time -and have reached that stage that I don't need the experience/money / and especially the headaches a small group can give you.
As long as it isn't a headache - I'll do it -- but I have zero tolerance for any coach questioning a call -- absolutely zero. If they have a question - that's one thing - ask away. If they question our judgment -- that's another.
For those of you out there doing these - and having problems - get w/ the leaders of the program and have a long talk w/ them about how you expect it to be run - from an officials side.

[JMN]

Originally posted by William C
Basically these LL need to be run by a group that will go to bat for the officials - in case there are problems.

We've had some success this year with improving the backing our association gets from the teams. One of our board members attended the Youth Football Board meetings to understand what is expected by the youth team leadership and share a perspective on what is expected by the officials. It's been a good relationship with a positive outcome.

[i]
I've ref'ed for a loooooong time -and have reached that stage that I don't need the experience/money / and especially the headaches a small group can give you.
As long as it isn't a headache - I'll do it -- but I have zero tolerance for any coach questioning a call -- absolutely zero. If they have a question - that's one thing - ask away. If they question our judgment -- that's another.
[/B]

If you don't need the money, experience, and can't deal with the headaches, then maybe it is time to give up youth ball. In my opinion, doing this only for the money, experience, and expecting to not to have to deal with people who disagree with you is very short-sighted. And, if you want to walk away because coaches question your judgement, what gives?

Do you apply the same logic to Friday nights? Do you only take assignments where you don't get a headache?

Again, what's your motivation for being on the field? Is it making money, gaining experience, and not being questioned on every call OR is it to serve the kids and the game? Let's make sure we're in it for the right reasons. You can weather a lot of controversy (which I believe to be inherent in officiating) if you're there for the right reasons!

[William C]

JMN
It appears you have taken this out of context. A lot of this thread is about the troubles we all have had in games -- especially youth leagues.
In no way am I in it for the money. As we've all said on here - with the dangerous situations out there with leagues that have no real way of controlling their fans and coaches -- we have a right to say - 'fix the problem' before we get out there.
I have worked plenty of games FREE - to help the kids playing - to help the younger officials -- to teach coaches ---to help the league that helps look after us.
I'm just saying - if it's dangerous -- no amount of money makes it worth it. If all you are going to get are headaches and problems from coaches/fans who have no clue along with the 'higher ups' not backing you up - no amount of money - or gaining experience time - is worth it.
It's not our responsibility to teach the coaches / administrators how to run the league. We can help them w/ rules and try to teach good sportsmanship - but we have the right to be / feel protected. If we can't be protected - and feel safe -- somebody is not doing their job and somebody has crossed the line. That's where it's not worth it. I've seen it happen and it isn't pretty - or good for the kids to witness.

[Forksref]

You guys who are associated in any way with youth leagues should check out the National Alliance for Youth Sports (NAYS).

"The goal of the National Alliance for Youth Sports is to make sports safe and positive for AmericaÂ’s youth. The Alliance believes that this can only happen if:
-We provide children with a positive introduction to
youth sports;
-That administrators, coaches, and game officials are
well trained;
-Parents complete an orientation to understand the
important impact sports has on their childÂ’s
development and:
-Youth sports are implemented in accordance with the
National Standards for Youth Sports."

http://www.nays.org

Get this info to the league leadership. Check out the NAYS website.

[chris s]

Originally posted by Simbio
Hi JMN,

I agree with what you said and I hope it doesn't sound like I was wimping out and quitting etc. There are a lot of officials, good officials that have been officiating for years and have just finally had enough. It gets to a point that it's no longer fun for them. I suppose after so much time, you either reach the point that you're numb to it all, or you burn out.

And I agree that we all, as officials, need to be stiffer when enforcing unsportsmanlike behavior and that needs to be done in any sport. I think this year is the hardest I have been as far as controlling the game. I'm not dropping my flag for little ticky tack things, unless I feel that it's only going to get worse. I've been using the "Sideline Warning" to my advantage (since I am a wing official) and have found it very effective on unruly coaching staffs. The first one costs them no yards, but lets them know that you're not going to put up with it. If they continue, throw it again and give them 5 yards. I don't think we should be Nazis on the field, but something has to be done, and it must be done by all of us.

Anyone else want to put in their two cents? Opinions?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
The P/W "Mighty-mite bowl", 6-8's, full on NFHS rules, cept no more than 5 B players can rush, no score kept......yeah right!!!! The B rush rule was easy, no score was shown on the board, but those kids and coaches knew that score!!! T/O's with 25 seconds left and A at B's 10??? I aint that stupid. 5 games that day, all 3 man and some good little guys, damn I was sore!, worked WH again the next day for 5 more, this time jr midget and Midget, first 3 we had 4, no-show for last 2 games, again 3 man. Covereing that off side from WH is tiring!!!!!!!

[MD Longhorn]

Here our 3-man mechanic is R, H, and L... no U. I'd suggest that for your area at the peewee levels - much more activity on the wings, and R can pick up most of U's responsibilities easily, as R is usually much taller than the players.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by mbcrowder
Here our 3-man mechanic is R, H, and L... no U.

same here