Fumble Recovery / OOB

[bob jenkins]

Just to get some discussion going:

NCAA rules. A1 fumbles the ball near the sideline. In attempting to recover the ball, B1 unintentionally goes OOB, jumps from OOB and while in the air over the field of play, grabs the ball. Ruling?

It happened during a game last weekend, and the crew had a spirited discussion during half-time on what the correct ruling should be. I'm just a clock operator, so I just listened and didn't participate -- but I know what I would have ruled.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Just to get some discussion going:

NCAA rules. A1 fumbles the ball near the sideline. In attempting to recover the ball, B1 unintentionally goes OOB, jumps from OOB and while in the air over the field of play, grabs the ball. Ruling?

It happened during a game last weekend, and the crew had a spirited discussion during half-time on what the correct ruling should be. I'm just a clock operator, so I just listened and didn't participate -- but I know what I would have ruled.

Ball is touched by a player with OOB status, therefore it becomes OOB. Since a player who is out of bounds cannot secure possession, the ball is awarded to team A. If the fumble was touched by B in advance of the spot of the fumble, it is returned to the spot of the fumble. In any scenario it is A's ball, next down (unless A has reached the line to gain).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Ball is touched by a player with OOB status, therefore it becomes OOB. Since a player who is out of bounds cannot secure possession, the ball is awarded to team A. If the fumble was touched by B in advance of the spot of the fumble, it is returned to the spot of the fumble. In any scenario it is A's ball, next down (unless A has reached the line to gain).

Thanks -- that's what was ruled and what we had as the correct ruling in the booth (not that our opinion matters).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Ball is touched by a player with OOB status, therefore it becomes OOB. Since a player who is out of bounds cannot secure possession, the ball is awarded to team A. If the fumble was touched by B in advance of the spot of the fumble, it is returned to the spot of the fumble. In any scenario it is A's ball, next down (unless A has reached the line to gain).

I do not agree with this. There is no status for a player that is airborne. The only provision that I am aware of at the NCAA level is if a pass is thrown and the player jumped from out of bounds, but simply touching the ball or recovering the ball does not change what is ruled. Now you can have other things, but I would need to see a rules reference on this one to support that the player is out of bounds. I think the play would stand depending on who was coming from out of bounds or how they got out of bounds (blocked, forced vs. going out on their own).

Peace

[JamesBCrazy]

Are we seriously going to debate the definition of "is touching" again?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not agree with this. There is no status for a player that is airborne. The only provision that I am aware of at the NCAA level is if a pass is thrown and the player jumped from out of bounds, but simply touching the ball or recovering the ball does not change what is ruled. Now you can have other things, but I would need to see a rules reference on this one to support that the player is out of bounds. I think the play would stand depending on who was coming from out of bounds or how they got out of bounds (blocked, forced vs. going out on their own).

Peace

I'm no expert in NCAA rules (that's why I ask so many questions), and I know enough from other sports to know that sometimes something that seems clear in one section of the rules book is contradicted in another section, but there is this from the book:

SECTION 2. Out of Bounds
Player Out of Bounds
ARTICLE 1. a. A player is out of bounds when any part of their person touches
anything, other than another player or game official, on or outside a boundary
line (Rule 2-27-15) (A.R. 4-2-1-I and II).
b. An out-of-bounds player who becomes airborne remains out of bounds
until they touch the ground in bounds without simultaneously being out
of bounds.
c. A player who touches a pylon is out of bounds.

[JRutledge]

I can tell you that for sure that this is not the case at the NF level. The NCAA changed the rule related to catching a pass for sure. Not sure that was the case for a recovery of a loose ball.

Peace

[ilyazhito]

Rule 4, Section 2, Article 3 states "A ball not in player control, other than a kick that scores a field goal, is out of bounds when it touches the ground, a player, a game official, or anything else that is out of bounds, or that is on or outside a boundary line". This means that if a player who was out of bounds, and did not touch inbounds with something and have nothing touching a boundary, is still "on or outside a boundary", and as a result is considered out of bounds. Therefore, the ball touched by B becomes out of bounds. Replay would need definitive evidence that the B player returned inbounds prior to recovery to award the ball to B at the spot of the recovery.

[Robert Goodman]

This discussion made me check, and I saw something surprising: that NCAA currently has no equivalent of Fed's illegal participation foul regarding players who voluntarily go out of bounds while the ball is live. It seems the only controls on going out of bounds and returning in bounds have to do with substitutions and the touching of forward passes, plus provisions relating to game administration by wing officials. Not even in the interpretations is there anything about such tactics as running behind either team's bench, a peanut vendor, ambulance, and cheerleaders to make a surprise tackle along a sideline, catch a backwards pass, etc.