Pass attempt breaks the plane

[bsaucer]

Team A has ball on (or inside) team B's 1 yard line. The passer stands close to (or on) the LOS. He attempts to pass into the end zone. If, while his arm moves forward, the ball "breaks the plane" before leaving the passer's hand, is it a TD? Or do we have a legal or illegal forward pass?

[GA Umpire 07]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

Team A has ball on (or inside) team B's 1 yard line. The passer stands close to (or on) the LOS. He attempts to pass into the end zone. If, while his arm moves forward, the ball "breaks the plane" before leaving the passer's hand, is it a TD? Or do we have a legal or illegal forward pass?

Which rule-set?

[HLin NC]

NFHS 8-2-ART. 1 . . . Possession of a live ball in the opponent's end zone is always a touchdown.

a. It is a touchdown when a runner advances from the field of play so that the ball penetrates the vertical plane of the opponent's goal line.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire 07

Which rule-set?

No matter. Anyone in any rule set is going to rule the runner in possession until the ball leaves his hand. No indication that he was juggling the ball before it broke the plane, right?

[bsaucer]

So it's not considered a pass until the ball leaves his hand?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

So it's not considered a pass until the ball leaves his hand?

There are situations in which a forward pass is ruled retroactively to have begun with a forward motion of even part of the arm that has a hand with a ball in it. This is not one of those situations because the ball never became loose, at least according to the initial description. The ball was dead while still in a player's possession.

[HLin NC]

A ball is either in player possession or its not.


2-32-ART. 1 . . . Passing the ball is throwing a ball that is in player possession. In a pass, the ball travels in flight.

The act of passing and a pass are different things.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

There are situations in which a forward pass is ruled retroactively to have begun with a forward motion of even part of the arm that has a hand with a ball in it. This is not one of those situations because the ball never became loose, at least according to the initial description. The ball was dead while still in a player's possession.

Assuming the ball left the hand after crossing the plane, would that change things?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

Team A has ball on (or inside) team B's 1 yard line. The passer stands close to (or on) the LOS. He attempts to pass into the end zone. If, while his arm moves forward, the ball "breaks the plane" before leaving the passer's hand, is it a TD? Or do we have a legal or illegal forward pass?

NFHS 7-5-1 clearly states, "it is a legal forward pass.....a player of A throws the ball with both feet of the passer in or behind the neutral zone when the ball is released..." If that pass is subsequently "caught" (satisfying NFHS:2-4-1 beyond the opponent's goal line, it is a TD.

[HLin NC]

If, while his arm moves forward, the ball "breaks the plane" before leaving the passer's hand

Fundamental I 8. Possession of a live ball in the opponent’s end zone is always a touchdown.

[Texas Aggie]

NCAA: If ANY part of the passer's body is behind the neutral zone, it is a legal forward pass (other things notwithstanding). Sorry I don't have an immediate rule reference. So, there's clearly no foul. Its just a matter of how the wing or covering official rules on the ball in the QB's hand breaking the plane. By the way it is stated, that would be a TD.

[Cliffdweller]

Yes, it's a TD and the wings better sell it, especially if it falls incomplete.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Cliffdweller

Yes, it's a TD and the wings better sell it, especially if it falls incomplete.

How about the old "punch" signal to make instantly clear that's why it was a TD? Or would that make it instantly unclear because nobody can read that signal now?

[BIG UMP]

Let's delve further into this.

In a 5 man crew who is going to see this, I say no one? Once the wings read pass they are sliding downfield, the U is probably not going to have a good enough view for that call and the R is deep.

7-man is different, wings don't slide downfield, but probably going to be hard to pick up.