Defensive hholdig in High School football.

[sauvageguy]

Hi all,

Need clarification. I had a penalty of holding on the defense. We marked off 10 yards from the previous spot. Can you tell me if this was administered correctly? I know in the NFL its 5 yards and automati first down.
Thank you.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by sauvageguy

Hi all,



Need clarification. I had a penalty of holding on the defense. We marked off 10 yards from the previous spot. Can you tell me if this was administered correctly? I know in the NFL its 5 yards and automati first down.

Thank you.

It might be, it might not be.

What was the play and the result of the play?


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[sauvageguy]

The play was an incomplete pass in which the umpire called holding on the defense. The hold occurred about 5 yards downfield.

Thank you

[Rich]

Originally Posted by sauvageguy

The play was an incomplete pass in which the umpire called holding on the defense. The hold occurred about 5 yards downfield.



Thank you

Then it's during a loose ball play, right?

What's the basic spot?


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[CT1]

Originally Posted by sauvageguy

The play was an incomplete pass in which the umpire called holding on the defense. The hold occurred about 5 yards downfield.

Thank you

10 yards, previous spot. Replay the down, unless penalty yardage results in a new series.

[HLin NC]

NFL rules and NFHS rules more often than not don't match enforcement. If you are a new official to HS football and you are going to watch pro or college games, determine what the enforcement would be in a HS game by keeping your books handy during the game. Good way to learn.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

NFL rules and NFHS rules more often than not don't match enforcement.

They did until the 1960s. That's when the NFL & AFL looked hard at their penalties, & said, given their market, they had no need to stay parallel w the other codes in terms of penalties -- although the NFL & AFL did stay highly consistent w each other! (I don't know about the Continental FL.) Took the pros a while to diverge a lot from NCAA & Fed, but that's when they apparently made that decision. One thing the pros sacrificed a lot of was ease of administr'n in terms of details for the ref to memorize.

[CT1]

A wise old official once told me:

“NFL rules are made for TV.
NCAA rules are made for the coaches.
NFHS rules are made for the safety of the players.”

[chapmaja]

I think the NFHS rules have one serious flaw. Penalties that should result in an automatic first down and do in other codes that don't in NFHS.

As an example, a high school championship game had a 3rd and 16 play last weekend which I was watching. Blatant person foul facemask penalty by the defender. He knew if he didn't make the tackle it would be a first down run because there was nobody close to the runner. Grabbed the facemask and pulls down the runner behind the LOS. 15 yards and replay the down. That type penalty and defensive PI should be an automatic first down.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I think the NFHS rules have one serious flaw. Penalties that should result in an automatic first down and do in other codes that don't in NFHS.



As an example, a high school championship game had a 3rd and 16 play last weekend which I was watching. Blatant person foul facemask penalty by the defender. He knew if he didn't make the tackle it would be a first down run because there was nobody close to the runner. Grabbed the facemask and pulls down the runner behind the LOS. 15 yards and replay the down. That type penalty and defensive PI should be an automatic first down.

And fans of the NFHS rule will say an AFD bails out an offense that managed to end up with a 3rd and 16.


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[CT1]

NFHS rules are primarily for the safety of the players and, just as importantly, to maintain a competitive balance between offense and defense.

NCAA and NFL rules (such as the one you support) tend to favor the offense, which draws eyeballs to the TV broadcasts that provide much of their revenue.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by CT1

A wise old official once told me:

“NFL rules are made for TV.
NCAA rules are made for the coaches.
NFHS rules are made for the safety of the players.”

If EVER, "One size NEVER fits all" should apply, it relates to the rules of a game, played by people between 8 and 58 years old, involving serious physical confrontations and collisions, by players of serious differences in physical characteristics, maturity and skill sets.

[Rich]

There are some rules in NFHS football that are not always equitable. Few sane people would deny that.

That includes the play here used as an example -- a player pulled down illegally and the defense gets to take advantage of the loss of yards. In a perfect world, those types of fouls would be enforced from the previous spot, but the NFHS values consistency above absolute fairness.

The automatic first down, however, is one of those things I can't get all worked up over. While it would bring the HS game closer in line to the other levels, again I ask the question.....why should a team who put itself into a 3rd and 16 be given a new series on a 10 yard penalty? 3rd and 6 is a lot better than 3rd and 16, after all, and it's not even a major foul, so no need to argue that point.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I think the NFHS rules have one serious flaw. Penalties that should result in an automatic first down and do in other codes that don't in NFHS.

As an example, a high school championship game had a 3rd and 16 play last weekend which I was watching. Blatant person foul facemask penalty by the defender. He knew if he didn't make the tackle it would be a first down run because there was nobody close to the runner. Grabbed the facemask and pulls down the runner behind the LOS. 15 yards and replay the down. That type penalty and defensive PI should be an automatic first down.

What do you mean by "that type penalty"? You mean a foul in a situation where you judge that the foul was necessary to prevent the line-to-gain from being reached?

[voiceoflg]

Broadcaster here. I thought the automatic first down in NFHS was to simplify it. Only the roughing calls are AFD. Full disclosure, it was a coach that told me it was for simplification.