penalty on scoring play

Michael Simpson · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 08, 2003, 10:35am

Opening kick off on Friday night. Receiving team returns the kick for a touchdown. On the return, with the ball live, a personal foul on the kicking team. As the receiving player crosses the goal line and after the whistle blows for the touchdown the receiver holds his hand up over his head and shows the number one signal.

Inforcement?

This is what I think it is. With the new rule change this season the personal foul must be inforced. We take the penalty against the kicking team from the 3 yard line half the distance to the 1-and- half- yard line of the goal for PAT. Then the unsportsman foul on the receiving team from this spot since it is the succeeding spot. The PAT is then attempted from the 16 and half- yard line.

Comments?

Snake~eyes · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 08, 2003, 11:10am

We had a USC on defense, WH enforced the penalty on the kickoff. But I'm not saying thats right.

[Edited by Snake~eyes on Oct 8th, 2003 at 11:47 AM]

mikesears · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 08, 2003, 11:37am

Quote:

Originally posted by Michael Simpson
Opening kick off on Friday night. Receiving team returns the kick for a touchdown. On the return, with the ball live, a personal foul on the kicking team. As the receiving player crosses the goal line and after the whistle blows for the touchdown the receiver holds his hand up over his head and shows the number one signal.

Inforcement?

This is what I think it is. With the new rule change this season the personal foul must be inforced. We take the penalty against the kicking team from the 3 yard line half the distance to the 1-and- half- yard line of the goal for PAT. Then the unsportsman foul on the receiving team from this spot since it is the succeeding spot. The PAT is then attempted from the 16 and half- yard line.

Comments?

Hey, Mike! Glad to see someone else from the association posting here!

Enforce them in the order that they occured. You got it right.

Viking32 · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 08, 2003, 01:00pm

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't R get the option of taking the penalty on the extra point OR the kickoff now? I can see two scenarios:

1) R accepts the K penalty on the XP and we go to the 1 1/2. Then the USC on R is accepted by K and we mark it off to the 16 1/2 and give the ready for play.

OR

2) R accepts the K penalty on the kickoff. The USC on R is accepted by K and we mark it off to the 18 and give ready for play. Then we mark off the K penalty on the kickoff.

Or am I missing something elementary?

alabamabluezebra · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 08, 2003, 01:11pm

Please tell me the player did more than hold up a number one signal. Did he use the middle finger? If not, how would it warrant a flag?

ABoselli · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 08, 2003, 01:17pm

You only get the choice if it happened on a kick try.

By the way, I'm with ABZ - a single 'we're number 1' draws a flag? Not where I work, brother.

Viking32 · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 08, 2003, 01:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ABoselli
You only get the choice if it happened on a kick try.

Really??? I thought that changed this year if there was a penalty on K or B on a scoring play.....

Mike Simonds · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 08, 2003, 01:26pm

Its the middle finger.

ABoselli · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 08, 2003, 01:57pm

I left out field goals - K has their choice of accepting a penalty on R or having it enforced on the kickoff. Not a TD, though. It's always succeeding spot, which is the 3 for the try.

Bob M. · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 08, 2003, 03:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Viking32
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't R get the option of taking the penalty on the extra point OR the kickoff now?

REPLY: That's true for NCAA rules, but not for Federation. I think it was a 2002 change to the NCAA rules.

BktBallRef · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 08, 2003, 04:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by alabamabluezebra
Please tell me the player did more than hold up a number one signal. Did he use the middle finger? If not, how would it warrant a flag?

I agree. Now, if the player is running down the field with the ball and starts waving that finger, then I think we have a different situation. There's a difference in blatant unsporting behavior during the down, versus a simple pointed finger after the play is over.

Forksref · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 10, 2003, 01:16am

A foul by the defensive team (in this case the kicking team) allows the scoring team to accept the result of the play (TD) and have the penalty enforced from the succeeding spot. The succeeding spot on a TD is the try. The dead ball foul is enforced in order, after the first foul is penalized.

KWH · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 10, 2003, 02:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by Viking32

Quote:

Originally posted by ABoselli
You only get the choice if it happened on a kick try.

Really??? I thought that changed this year if there was a penalty on K or B on a scoring play.....

Viking32-
Here is some suggested reading:
NFHS Rulebook 8-2-2
NFHS Rulebook 8-4-3
Note the term "Succeeding Spot"
I hope this helps...

Viking32 · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 10, 2003, 08:00am

[/QUOTE]
Viking32-
Here is some suggested reading:
NFHS Rulebook 8-2-2
NFHS Rulebook 8-4-3
Note the term "Succeeding Spot"
I hope this helps... [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks. Yeah, those are the ones I was reading too. However, succeeding spot is the point that I'm confused on. I thought it was new this year that the scoring team could take the penalty on EITHER the extra point OR the kickoff. Unless that was a local (MN & ND) rule adopted by the state associations.

Forksref · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Oct 10, 2003, 08:25am

Succeeding spot: (2-40-10) The succeeding spot is where the ball would next be snapped or free kicked if a foul had not occurred.

In other words the next play, NOT the play after the next play. Therefore, after a TD, the TRY is the succeeding spot.

Did anyone see that there was a successful 62-yd extra point kicked by a HS kid? There were three unsportsmanlike penalties after a TD. I think it started with USC for celebrating and then the coach flipped out and got a couple more himself. I believe it was in the Washington, DC area. The kicker is going to the University of Virginia next year.