NFL Catch Rule vs. NCAA & NFHS

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

One reason/difference (in NFHS) might be NFHS 8-2-1 &1a; "Possession of a live ball in the opponents EZ is always a touchdown.

Yes, and you have to complete a catch to have a TD.

Originally Posted by ajmc

1a. "It is a TD when a runner advances from the field of play so that the ball penetrates the vertical plane of the opponent's goal line.".

2-32-13, provides: "A runner is a player who is in possession of a live ball or is simulating possession of a live ball."

All interesting references, but nothing says when possession is on a catch. Simply having the hands on the ball does not complete possession.

Also, the NFL has the right to determine when you have possession. To the NFL you must complete the process of the catch which includes surviving the ground or surviving the hit. There are many that feel we should use the same standard in NF games and many do. I was always taught not to have cheap fumbles or catches.

Peace

[FormerUmp]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes, and you have to complete a catch to have a TD.



All interesting references, but nothing says when possession is on a catch. Simply having the hands on the ball does not complete possession.

Also, the NFL has the right to determine when you have possession. To the NFL you must complete the process of the catch which includes surviving the ground or surviving the hit. There are many that feel we should use the same standard in NF games and many do. I was always taught not to have cheap fumbles or catches.

Peace

What's your opinion on this one?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by FormerUmp

What's your opinion on this one?

Did the ball hit the ground? Video did not support that it did.

Peace

[FormerUmp]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Did the ball hit the ground? Video did not support that it did.

Peace

It clearly hit the ground on the last angle.

[JRutledge]

This is also a call in an NF (High School State Finals)

No one said a word about this call.

BTW, this was in 2011.



Peace

[FormerUmp]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is also a call in an NF (High School State Finals)

No one said a word about this call.

BTW, this was in 2011.



Peace

Jesse James demonstrated more control of the ball than the receiver in that video.

[JRutledge]

Here is another play that resembles the play this past weekend.



Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by FormerUmp

Jesse James demonstrated more control of the ball than the receiver in that video.

Thanks for saying that and the problem with your point. You want a subjective situation to be ruled possession and he did not complete the part of the rule that is required. He was going to the ground and did not "survive the ground." In the play I showed, the play had a player take a few steps while trying to bring the ball in and clearly lost the ball after being hit. Now in that play, I showed for the high school game, if we use the standard that you and others would like or suggest the rule says, he took several steps. Nothing about his actual control of the ball or when did he have control is up for major debate. So every play we would debate if he had control and in the Jesse James play, we would have plays similar and debate when or if he had control. Again, he did not survive the ground, the rule is clear. We would be debating other plays like this all the time and have no line to judge. Surviving the ground standard at least requires you come all the way to the ground and after to demonstrate control. This is why the rule will not likely change and if it does, we will be back here debating the plays in question.

Peace

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by FormerUmp

It clearly hit the ground on the last angle.

I didn't see any loss of control whatsoever

[FormerUmp]

Originally Posted by scrounge

I didn't see any loss of control whatsoever

That didn't stop replay from overturning Zach Miller's touchdown on the play that could have cost him his leg.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by FormerUmp

That didn't stop replay from overturning Zach Miller's touchdown on the play that could have cost him his leg.

Ok, what's your point? You already posted at length on that play in an earlier thread. We're talking about these plays.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes, and you have to complete a catch to have a TD.
All interesting references, but nothing says when possession is on a catch. Simply having the hands on the ball does not complete possession.

There are many that feel we should use the same standard in NF games and many do. I was always taught not to have cheap fumbles or catches.
Peace

That's why I specified NFHS, which also describes both a "Catch" (of a pass) and "possession", with definitions that have been constant for decades.

NFHS 2-34-1: "A ball in player possession is a live ball held or controlled by a player after it has been handed or snapped to him, or after he has caught or recovered it."

NFHS 2-4-1: "A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball which is in flight, and first contacting the ground inbounds while maintaining possession of the ball (recently expanded to include) or having the forward progress of the player in possession stopped while the opponent is carrying the player who is in possession and inbounds.

NFL rules are designed for extraordinary talented and experienced professional athletes, who are grown men in a profit centered environment, with unique objectives, whereas NFHS rules cover Interscholastic and "sandlot" athletic development level programs. Each rule code is designed for it's specific participants.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

That's why I specified NFHS, which also describes both a "Catch" (of a pass) and "possession", with definitions that have been constant for decades.

NFHS 2-34-1: "A ball in player possession is a live ball held or controlled by a player after it has been handed or snapped to him, or after he has caught or recovered it."

NFHS 2-4-1: "A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball which is in flight, and first contacting the ground inbounds while maintaining possession of the ball (recently expanded to include) or having the forward progress of the player in possession stopped while the opponent is carrying the player who is in possession and inbounds.

NFL rules are designed for extraordinary talented and experienced professional athletes, who are grown men in a profit centered environment, with unique objectives, whereas NFHS rules cover Interscholastic and "sandlot" athletic development level programs. Each rule code is designed for it's specific participants.

Great reference, if you do not survive the ground (or the hit) in my game, you do not get a catch in my game. That is my crew philosophy and we do not have replay to tell us otherwise. That simple. No cheap fumbles or catches, especially in the end zone.

Peace

[JRutledge]

This is an HS game. You calling this a TD?



Peace

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is an HS game. You calling this a TD?



Peace

The BJ was a lot closer to the action than this camera, and had a much better view to assess possession. He didn't think it was a TD, why would I (or anyone) question his judgment? Neither you, or your crew, "give" anyone a catch, when a player completes a catch according to the rules under which the game is being played, you, or your crew, have the opportunity to confirm, or reject, whether a catch was completed. Either a peg fits the hole, or it doesn't, you don't get to adjust the hole as you see fit.