Inadvertent Whistle While FG Is In Air

[jblowery]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Doing the "right" thing with no rules basis is wrong, an will get you in even more trouble.

Usually but maybe not in this case. If you let K (the visiting team BTW if that is relevant at all) re-kick and they make the game winning FG you're going to be running for your life.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jblowery

Usually but not in this case. If you let K (the visiting team BTW) re-kick and they make the game winning FG you're going to be running for your life.

I'd fire any crew that set aside a rule so blatantly.

[APG]

Originally Posted by jblowery

Usually but maybe not in this case. If you let K (the visiting team BTW if that is relevant at all) re-kick and they make the game winning FG you're going to be running for your life.

You've (in the ambiguous sense) already screwed up once...no need to compound it with a rules misapplication.

[jblowery]

Just pointing out that in this case there could be worse trouble if you apply the rule correctly. Personally, I can't think of anything worse as an official than for a team to win a game because an official screwed up, outside of a kid getting seriously injured because of an official. I'd rather get "fired" than have either one of those happen. However, I'd still apply the rule correctly if I was a referee and pray that the re-kick was no good.

We weren't 100% sure what to do. I may have been the only one that thought K would "probably" have the choice to re-kick but I'm not going to push the referee to make this application unless I'm 100% sure of it. Now I know though so I will be more adamant to the referee if it ever happens in the future. It won't happen though. I'm going to make it more clear that the two officials back at the goal post have the whistle on a FG attempt (unlike an extra point).

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by jblowery

Just pointing out that in this case there could be worse trouble if you apply the rule correctly. Not saying that was the wrong thing to do.

We weren't 100% sure what to do. I may have been the only one that thought K would "probably" have the choice to re-kick but I don't think this is the type of rule you want to apply unless you are 100% sure because in this case the rule isn't really fair. Now I know though so I will be more adamant to the referee if it ever happens in the future. It won't happen though. I'm going to make it clear that the two officials back at the goal post have the whistle on a FG attempt (unlike an extra point).

There's no chance you will get in more trouble for correctly applying a rule, there is 100% chance there will be more trouble for doing something blatently wrong with zero rules support, and it doesn't matter if you think the rule isn't fair or not. Just remember the two officials should wait to blow their whistle until after the ball has crossed the goal line.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jblowery

Just pointing out that in this case there could be worse trouble if you apply the rule correctly. Personally, I can't think of anything worse as an official than for a team to win a game because an official screwed up, outside of a kid getting seriously injured because of an official. I'd rather get "fired" than have either one of those happen. However, I'd still apply the rule correctly if I was a referee and pray that the re-kick was no good.

We weren't 100% sure what to do. I may have been the only one that thought K would "probably" have the choice to re-kick but I'm not going to push the referee to make this application unless I'm 100% sure of it. Now I know though so I will be more adamant to the referee if it ever happens in the future. It won't happen though. I'm going to make it more clear that the two officials back at the goal post have the whistle on a FG attempt (unlike an extra point).

One official. The back judge. He's the guy ALWAYS under the posts.

And let me suggest that the crew spends more time in the rules book and knows the IW choices / provisions cold. They aren't supposed to happen, but there's a reason there's a half-page in the rules book devoted to them.

[jblowery]

Originally Posted by Rich

One official. The back judge. He's the guy ALWAYS under the posts.

And let me suggest that the crew spends more time in the rules book and knows the IW choices / provisions cold. They aren't supposed to happen, but there's a reason there's a half-page in the rules book devoted to them.

Yes; I agree.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jblowery

Yes; I agree.

What's the saying....I've made every mistake once -- I'm trying not to make any of them twice.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by OKREF

All that matters is where was the ball when the whistle was blown. If it was in the air, and not in possession of R, K will choose to replay the down.

If the ball is loose following a legal forward pass or kick, there's no choice -- the down must be replayed. (FED)

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by jblowery

One of the reasons I asked is because it would actually be more fair to give the choice to R instead of K because the only portion of the play that was prevented was R returning the kick. The kick was way short of the goal posts. The rule is the rule and we have to enforce it but I'm sure this wasn't the type of situation the rulemakers had in mind when they wrote it. Just saying that it in this situation R really gets screwed. If you re-play the down and K makes the FG (this was end of regulation with game tied) the refs basically lost the game for R.

The IW provisions should be amended to make it that when a scrimmage kick is beyond the ENZ, and has not been first touched by any player of R, team R gets the choice. I think they way they have it now was arrived at to keep the rules shorter, going by team possession consistently with the rest of the book.

[BoomerSooner]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

The IW provisions should be amended to make it that when a scrimmage kick is beyond the ENZ, and has not been first touched by any player of R, team R gets the choice. I think they way they have it now was arrived at to keep the rules shorter, going by team possession consistently with the rest of the book.

The issue with this quote is that possession doesn't change just because the ball has crossed the ENZ. There are a variety of possible actions that could occur after an IW with the ball in the air that would determine which team is awarded possession at the end of the down. Some of those possible actions may never occur because some players stopped playing once the IW is blown.

[ajmc]

Insisting that "One size fits all" can cause a lot of truly unnecessary pain. Perhaps the most important quality officials provide to Interscholastic Football is common sense (which often includes sound judgment and the courage to apply it).

As written the IW correction procedures are clear, concise and understandable, and relies on the common sense of officials to administer. A situation where a FG attempt was blown dead inadvertently that clearly disadvantaged either team is simply different than a FG attempt that concludes, one way or the other, (Good-No Good) and does not unfairly or inappropriately disadvantage either team, during which there might have been a whistle sounded while the kick was in flight, that had no bearing WHATSOEVER on the success or failure of the attempt.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

So it was short of the goal line at the time of the whistle, and did not bounce into the end zone subsequently to it? I read "whistle before it crosses goal line" as meaning it did cross it after the whistle.

You keep asking questions whose answers would not change anything.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jblowery

Just pointing out that in this case there could be worse trouble if you apply the rule correctly.

You cannot base your decisions on the field based on which decision keeps you in less trouble.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Insisting that "One size fits all" can cause a lot of truly unnecessary pain. Perhaps the most important quality officials provide to Interscholastic Football is common sense (which often includes sound judgment and the courage to apply it).

As written the IW correction procedures are clear, concise and understandable, and relies on the common sense of officials to administer. A situation where a FG attempt was blown dead inadvertently that clearly disadvantaged either team is simply different than a FG attempt that concludes, one way or the other, (Good-No Good) and does not unfairly or inappropriately disadvantage either team, during which there might have been a whistle sounded while the kick was in flight, that had no bearing WHATSOEVER on the success or failure of the attempt.

A FG attempt that's short is no different than a punt.

What do we do if there's an IW while a punt's in the air?