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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 16, 2003, 07:49am
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1
On a previous forum the followign was posted:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With third and 8 from A's 35, A1 takes the snap and drops back to pass to A25. A2 holds at A30 before the pass. The pass is incomplete. If B accepts the penalty where is the ball spotted and what is the down?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Foul occurs during a loose ball play (the run preceding a legal forward pass), so the basic spot is the previous spot.

The foul is by the offense and behind the basic spot, making this the "one" in the "all but one" principle. Mark from the spot of the foul and replay the down; make it 3rd and 23 from the A20.

according to NCAA rules:
1. When the run ends beyond the neutral zone, the basic enforcement
spot is the end of the related run (Exceptions: Offensive team facemask,
illegal use of hands, holding, illegal block and personal fouls,
behind the neutral zone, are enforced from the previous spot. Safety
if the foul occurs behind Team A’s goal line) (Rules 2-25-10-a and 2-
30-4) (A.R. 10-2-2-XVI, XXVIII, XXIX, XXXI and XXXII).

Pass plays—The basic enforcement spot for fouls during a legal forward
pass play is the previous spot (Rules 2-25-10-d and 2-30-1).

Enforce facemask, illegal use of hands, holding, illegal block and
personal fouls, occurring behind the neutral zone by the offensive
team from the previous spot (Exception: Safety if the foul occurs
behind Team A’s goal line).

fr-122.

Am I mistaken or is there a difference in enforcement for federation rules?


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Old Wed Sep 17, 2003, 01:02am
KWH KWH is offline
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Location: Portland Oregon USA
Posts: 520
NFHS Ruling

Quote:
Originally posted by LJUDGE289
On a previous forum the followign was posted:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With third and 8 from A's 35, A1 takes the snap and drops back to pass to A25. A2 holds at A30 before the pass. The pass is incomplete. If B accepts the penalty where is the ball spotted and what is the down?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NFHS Ruling
This foul occured during a loose ball play and is therefore administered from the previous spot. (The A35)
The captain of B may either decline the penalty making it 4th and 8 from A's 35.
or
The captain of B may accept the penalty making it 3rd and 18 from the A25.

Rule references:
10-4-2b
10-3-1d

Case Book References:
10.4.2 SITUATION B
10.4.2 SITUATION C

Hope this helps
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Old Wed Sep 17, 2003, 03:10am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,741
You're forgetting 10-6, which is the all-but-one principle:

...a penalty for a foul occurring during a play is enforced from the basic spot with the exception of a foul by the offense which occurs behind the basic spot during a loose ball play or a running play. This particular foul is enforced from the spot of the foul.

--------------
So, I'll agree that the basic spot is the previous spot. However, on this play we need to use the all-but-one principle and, if accepted, the ball will be marked off 10 from the spot of the foul and it will be 3rd and 23 from A's 20.

KWH: Case book 10.4.2 situation B simply talks about the basic spot (which is the previous spot and will be the spot of penalty enforcement UNLESS the all-but-one principle applies) and doesn't deal with enforcement since it doesn't even give the spot where the foul occurred. 10.4.2 situation C is a play that has DEFENSIVE holding during a loose ball play and would, indeed, be marked off from the previous spot if accepted since it was a foul on the DEFENSE.

Rich

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Sep 17th, 2003 at 03:17 AM]
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Old Wed Sep 17, 2003, 06:42am
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Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 1,464
Quote:
Originally posted by LJUDGE289

Am I mistaken or is there a difference in enforcement for federation rules?


### it's one of many, many differences. This one (NCAA) was only changed maybe 2 seasons ago.
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