What would you do? - Page 5

OKREF · #61 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 14, 2015, 07:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If that's the case, I'm alright with that, but I'm still leaving my post up to remind rookie officials that there are subtle differences between penalties for intentional personal fouls, and technical fouls. Hopefully, OKREF won't mind.

I don't. Obviously who shoots is the biggest difference. I was really just referring to this play. There was no doubt who was going to shoot the T. The team in white was the two time defending champion, and that kid was a three time state tourney MVP. They went on to win the next day, making it 3 in a row, going for 27 ppg in their 9 state tourney wins.

Mregor · #62 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:00pm

That clears up everything. I'd say there is definitely contact based on the stumbling of the player in white. Intentional personal is the correct call. Thanks for posting the video.

Rooster · #63 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 14, 2015, 11:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF

Yea, I remember sitting in the locker room at half and talking about that, wished I would have had an intentional instead.

I'm not so sure you should be as hard on yourself. Is it possible that you were trying to clamp down on some building chippy-ness? Looking at the video before this play gold 20 was also acting like dope. (24:53, 27:06, 28:06, 29:02, 31:16) I'm wondering what you thought of the temperature of the game, especially considering that gold was getting wiped...

OKREF · #64 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 14, 2015, 11:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooster

I'm not so sure you should be as hard on yourself. Is it possible that you were trying to clamp down on some building chippy-ness? Looking at the video before this play gold 20 was also acting like dope. (24:53, 27:06, 28:06, 29:02, 31:16) I'm wondering what you thought of the temperature of the game, especially considering that gold was getting wiped...

Gold 20 got a technical foul also. In the third I believe. My partner made a call, and he told him it was "f**king BS". The T was his fifth. First bucket Gold scores kid turns to White bench and claps his hands right at them. First dead ball I asked him if he heard anything we just talked about, and to not do it again. I agree, we were not going to let this game get out of hand.

rockyroad · #65 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

Interesting.
B1 swipes at A1's foot and misses (official rules this an unsporting technical foul), A2 retaliates with a punch.

B1 swipes at A1's foot and makes contact (intentional foul), A2 retaliates with a punch.

We only get to toss them both if B1 misses.

Not sure that is correct...the action leading up to the retaliation can be considered part of the "fight" by rule, I think. Don't have books with me on vacation, but I believe that wording is in there somewhere, isn't it?

Raymond · #66 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 15, 2015, 07:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF

Yea, I remember sitting in the locker room at half and talking about that, wished I would have had an intentional instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooster

I'm not so sure you should be as hard on yourself. Is it possible that you were trying to clamp down on some building chippy-ness? Looking at the video before this play gold 20 was also acting like dope. (24:53, 27:06, 28:06, 29:02, 31:16) I'm wondering what you thought of the temperature of the game, especially considering that gold was getting wiped...

He is being hard on himself because the infraction was either a common personal foul or an intentional personal foul, but not a technical.

OKREF · #67 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 15, 2015, 07:40am

The play at 28:06 was almost a big mess. My partner had a block, I had a PC. This is something we pre gamed, and in our corner, anytime we have a double whistle like this the lead has it, (in 2 man mechanics). Could have easily had a blarge here.

#68 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 15, 2015, 10:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF

The play at 28:06 was almost a big mess. My partner had a block, I had a PC. This is something we pre gamed, and in our corner, anytime we have a double whistle like this the lead has it, (in 2 man mechanics). Could have easily had a blarge here.

Why did you even have a whistle there from Trail??

Raymond · #69 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 15, 2015, 10:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF

The play at 28:06 was almost a big mess. My partner had a block, I had a PC. This is something we pre gamed, and in our corner, anytime we have a double whistle like this the lead has it, (in 2 man mechanics). Could have easily had a blarge here.

You should not have had a whistle. Your partner should have called a PC.

OKREF · #70 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 15, 2015, 11:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed

Why did you even have a whistle there from Trail??

Yes the trail should hold his whistle, but I don't think there is anything wrong with the trail having a whistle, but just hold the signal to see what the lead has so we don't have conflicting signals. This play started in the trails primary, there's no way I'm giving it up without knowing for certain my partner has picked it up. He may be officiating post play and not pick it up clean. I'm staying with the drive, especially when it's into the lane.

deecee · #71 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 15, 2015, 12:52pm

I don't see anything wrong with the T having a whistle here, in fact probably better from the T. I did think it was a PC.

edit. I meant the T should not have had a whistle here, I got my T's and L's mixed up again.

Raymond · #72 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 15, 2015, 02:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF

Yes the trail should hold his whistle, but I don't think there is anything wrong with the trail having a whistle, but just hold the signal to see what the lead has so we don't have conflicting signals. This play started in the trails primary, there's no way I'm giving it up without knowing for certain my partner has picked it up. He may be officiating post play and not pick it up clean. I'm staying with the drive, especially when it's into the lane.

But your partner did pick it up, and had a whistle. Cadence whistle is what is needed here.

#73 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 15, 2015, 02:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF

Yes the trail should hold his whistle

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF

I don't think there is anything wrong with the trail having a whistle

These are conflicting statements, which do you truly believe?

BillyMac · #74 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 15, 2015, 04:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad

...the action leading up to the retaliation can be considered part of the "fight" by rule, I think. Don't have books with me on vacation, but I believe that wording is in there somewhere, isn't it?

It's there:

4-18 Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live. Fighting includes, but is not limited to combative acts such as:
ART. 1 An attempt to strike, punch or kick by using a fist, hands, arms, legs
or feet regardless of whether contact is made.
ART. 2 An attempt to instigate a fight by committing an unsporting act that
causes a person to retaliate by fighting.

What? You don't bring your rulebook, casebook, and manual, with you to study on vacations? And you call yourself a basketball official?

Rooster · #75 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 15, 2015, 06:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

He is being hard on himself because the infraction was either a common personal foul or an intentional personal foul, but not a technical.

In conjunction with the nonsense that was happening earlier (and then confirmed by the T early in the fourth Q) you don't think there was an element of unsporting behavior that needed to be nipped in the bud? FWIW I'm not married to the idea of a T here...

Do you think it was a non-basketball play?