If the second foul happened after the first it can not be a personal foul...as it appears was called.
[/B][/QUOTE]That's my point. We don't know what Damian actually called the 2nd foul-personal or a T. His post never said.How can anyone say that he botched a call without having that information? If he called it a T,then he didn't botch the call.

That's my point. We don't know what Damian actually called the 2nd foul-personal or a T. His post never said.How can anyone say that he botched a call without having that information? If he called it a T,then he didn't botch the call. [/B][/QUOTE]

Damian did say "Nother flagrant or really intentional."

If contact during a dead ball is not flagrant or intentional, it should be ignored. If it is flagrant or intentional, it becomes a technical foul.

If he called a personal, it was incorrect since it was during a dead ball. If he called a technical, it was incorrect because it was neither flagrant nor intentional.

Double foul or technical?
We judge the time lapse between the two acts:
<LI>very short time (<I>pure judgement</I>) ---> Double foul
<li>a little longer than a very short time (<I>pure judgement</I>) ---> Technical foul

Either way the offensive player should be punished if the contact was, in fact, sufficient.

mick

Damian did say "Nother flagrant or really intentional."

If contact during a dead ball is not flagrant or intentional, it should be ignored. If it is flagrant or intentional, it becomes a technical foul.

If he called a personal, it was incorrect since it was during a dead ball. If he called a technical, it was incorrect because it was neither flagrant nor intentional. [/B][/QUOTE]You're right that he shouldn't call a technical foul under the "contact" language in R10-3-9. However,that doesn't mean that he can't call a technical foul in this instance under the provisions of R10-3-8 instead. If Damian felt that A1 committed "an unsporting act",then he has the backing of this rule to call the T. R10-3-8 was specifically written this way("not limited to...") to give an official the power to call a T for any act that he feels is unsporting,and not necessarily then have to label that foul "flagrant or intentional".

Double foul or technical?
We judge the time lapse between the two acts:
<LI>very short time (<I>pure judgement</I>) ---> Double foul
<li>a little longer than a very short time (<I>pure judgement</I>) ---> Technical foul

[/B][/QUOTE]Agree with that,mick,but just a quick point,more for the new officials.

The time lapse doesn't mean that the 2nd foul HAS to be a technical foul.You can still have a personal foul with the time lapse,to then constitute part of the false double foul. The most common play illustrating a false double foul with 2 personals is A1 shooting a foul shot,and a teammate committing a foul during that FT. The teammate's foul is a personal foul because the ball was alive,but we now have a false double foul because the second foul was committed before the clock started following the first foul.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Sep 12th, 2003 at 02:18 PM]

It sounds to me like the second foul was in retaliation for the first foul. Does that figure into your judgement at all?

Sounds like that to me also, Back In The Saddle.
B hacks A; A pushes B

<font color = Green> <B>" Player A1 is dribbling down the court. B1 tries to reach over and swat the ball. He misses and fouls. A1 pushes B1 down just after the initial contact...."</font></B>

If B hacks A, and A reflexively pushes B back, ---> double personal foul.
If B hacks A, and A <u>thinks/pauses</u> and then pushes B back ---> personal on B, technical on A
Sometimes, if B hacks A, and A steps toward, and makes a little contact on, B ---> "Take it easy fellas."
mick

Sometimes, I say, "Relax A, I got it."

Yep, "take it easy guys" and "relax, I got it" works...sometime I need to go to "c'mon guys, don't make me have to write a report on you @ss". But during summer leagues all I have to say is "do you guys know who's over there watching us right now?"

Always gets 'em! :)

That'll work. Thanks!
<HR>
Now I can't wait to git a team A. ;)

They play in Oakland but it's a different game. :p

British spelling
 

Unless you are from England, please spell judgment the American way.

English spelling
 

Webster's Seventh clearly says either/or on page 459.
The implication is that I may use "judgment <I>or</I> judgement" to spell judgment, or judgement, and I need not be from England.

Please cite your source of the "American way". :rolleyes:
mick

Re: English spelling
 

Here come the judg! Here come the judg! :D

Re: English spelling
 

Miss Musser, from high school English class. Isn't that good enought? :)

Honestly, I never knew "judgement" was acceptable. I gotta go do a little checking. . .