Where are the NFHS rule changes?
 

We're almost two weeks past when the new rules are typically announced, and it seems like we always get the NFHS changes before NCAA. I have to wonder what is taking so long this year. Maybe rewriting rule 9-9? :D

See You Next Year ...
 

No changes this year?

That would be a first. In the absence of any substantive changes, they always come up with a fashion police adjustment or two just to prove they convened and adjourned.

They're going to change the boundary lines from 2" to 6cm. Lines everywhere will need to be repainted to get the extra 1/3 of an inch to be legal!

Système International d'Unités ...
 

The metric system is the twenty-first century system of measurement in all civilized, industrialized, countries, except one. In terms of measurement, what is the only civilized, industrialized, country that still, officially, uses a much, much, much older system of measurement?

Another reason (with apologies to David Lettermen) why most of the world hates us.

Now, could somebody please help me down off my chemist's soapbox? I'm getting a little dizzy, and didn't realize how high it was.

"I love you, a bushel and a peck!" (Guys And Dolls, 1950)

I am actually a little shocked they are not out yet. Usually about this time when we have camp starting and especially the class room parts of those camps, we have the new rules.

I wonder what is the hold up?

Peace

Maybe someone is making sure they have clearly and completely expressed the desired changes instead of leaving big holes.

It would be a first, that is for sure.

Peace

This is really unusual especially with summer leagues starting soon in some places.

I've tweeted at the NFHS twice asking when they will come out and haven't gotten responses either time.

Twelve Angry Men ...
 

The committee is deadlocked, and sequestered, and the Theresia Wynns won't declare a mistrial.

Want to bet that IAABO Coordinator of Interpreters, Peter Webb, is the lone holdout?

He's still trying to convince everyone else that no opponent occupying a marked lane space should be allowed break the plane of the free throw line until the ball touches the ring, or backboard, or until the free throw ends.

Billy, that was the NFHS rule prior to the penultimate change. Why it wasn't put back in last year is a mystery. Or just sloppiness.

Or just completely unnecessary.

No, I remember it being a problem -- defenders weren't letting shooters follow through and were backing into and sticking a butt into the shooter. Not enough to call a foul, but certainly violating the spirit of a "free throw."

Wouldn't surprise me to see it be a rule this year.

Once nice thing about doing this a long time is that everything that's old becomes new again...or something like that.

"The more things change, the more they stay the same."

Based on what I saw, unnecessary.

Peace

I don't care myself. I'll simply call whatever the rules are. But let's not pretend he made it up out of thin air...it used to be a rule.

It had not been a rule like 10 years ago. It is not a rule at the other levels from what I can remember.

Peace

It was a rule up to when free throws were changed the last time. Don't care about other levels.

I get you do not care, but that is what influences other rules and current rules changes. If no other level has such a restriction, they might not care what the NF once had as the rule. I think the point was to mirror other levels as the NF was the only level that had such a rule that required all players a restriction until the ball hit the rim or was in the cylinder. And that is why I mentioned this, because the NCAA Men's side has no such restriction.

Peace

Tells you what they think of you. ;)

Nothing that interferes with the follow through after the release affects the shot. By the time they get to the shooter any thing the shooter needs to do should be done. If they're leaving early enough to get there in time to affect the shot, they were already in violation.

Psychological Perspective ...
 

Physics would support your conclusion 100%. But from a psychological perspective, the shooter being slightly bumped into, and slightly displaced, while in a vulnerable follow through position, could have a detrimental effect on the shooter's accuracy in subsequent shots during the rest of the game. It's called a "free" throw for a reason.

I like the restriction (free throw line for both teams). There must have been a reason why the NFHS had it in the rulebook the last time the NFHS allowed movement on the "release".

Did the NFHS just "forget" to include this (free throw line) restriction, or did they intentionally decide to exclude it from the new (old) rule?

Why did a basketball official training organization, IAABO, unilaterally take on the role of the NFHS and "make up" rules?

According to the LA Times High School beat writer here are the 2015-16 rule changes.

Basketball: Rule change for 2015-16 to help post players from excessive contact
By Eric Sondheimer

A rule change last season in high school basketball prohibiting excessive contact against dribblers has been expanded to include all ball-handlers on the court, including post players.

The revision in Rule 10-6-12 approved by the National Federation of State High School Associations Board of Directors states that "a player becomes a ball-handler when he/she receives the ball."
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The acts that constitute a foul are a) placing two hands on the player, b) placing an extended arm bar on the player, c) placing and keeping a hand on the player and d) contacting the player more than once with the same hand or alternating hands.

Last year, ball-handlers and dribblers outside of the post area became protected from excessive contact. Now adding post players will likely free up big men to maneuver better in the post.

The Basketball Rules Committee approved four points of emphasis for the upcoming season: post play, rebounding, protecting the free-throw shooter and NFHS mechanics and signals.

Nothing too exciting

http://ohsaa.org/news/201516BasketballRulesRelease.pdf

I am trying to figure out other than language was there any changes?

Peace

Sadly, it appears that the NFHS isn't aware of its own rulings!
Post players were indeed included in these contact rules last year.

Basketball Rules Interpretations - 2014-15
By NFHS on November 21, 2014
basketball
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Publisher’s Note: The National Federation of State High School Associations is the only source of official high school interpretations. They do not set aside nor modify any rule. They are made and published by the NFHS in response to situations presented.

Robert B. Gardner, Publisher, NFHS Publications © 2014


CLARIFICATION ON POST PLAYER: A post player becomes a ball handler/dribbler when the post player receives the ball, regardless of position on the floor or the direction he/she is facing.
When the offensive player gains possession of the ball, the actions listed in Rule 10-6-12 committed by any defensive player shall be charged as a foul.

Do we really need an official run-the-baseline signal?

Another thing to.get yelled at about at the state rules meeting.

A lot of, if not most, officials already use it. Why not make it an official signal?

Most officials I've seen have been using this signal in some form or fashion for at least 7 years. Another signal that the NFHS is late in adding

We were using some signal of that type since I started and that was back in the mid-90s. They are more than 7 years late.

Peace

I think with making an official signal, we'll see more variation, at least through to the Regional/State level.

Shows you how much I pay attention to approved signals, I always thought it was in the NFHS manual.

Me too.

Excerpt from the article posted by bballref3396:

"The committee noted that new information has been added to the rules book that addresses cleaning up post play and urged fouls to be called when violations occur."

:confused:

This underscores the language problem that plagues NFHS editors. Sheesh.

Overall I'm very disappointed. From what was on the agenda, there were some great opportunities to spice up the game, and they were all passed on. The updated rule is meaningless because officials won't enforce it, the new signal is merely a reflection of common practice, and the points of emphasis are recycled versions of the same stuff that re-appears every 2-3 years.

And a final note about approved signals. I use them, but I'm never afraid to add some clarifying "extra" signals because communication is key. When I combine that with two-hand reporting, I find that the perception of my game by most assignors and commissioners is actually better than if I were to only use the limited approved signals that the NFHS publishes.

No, we need an official run-the-endline signal. ;)

I was, and am, only interested in one change this year. It would be an editorial change, but I'm not holding my breath.

So I guess if a player takes not just a "few" but a whole lot of steps while carrying the ball, we can call a "flagrant travel" and give the other team two shots? :confused:

With the new rule change last year, I'd often use a clarifying extra signal if I called a foul for an arm bar or repeated jabs.

I'm also going to assume that the mentioned protection for the free throw shooter is most likely the IAABO interpretation others were instructed to apply in their games.

I'm curious to see if there are any unannounced mechanics changes associated with the new manual.

Sadly, local newswriters are acting like things have actually changed with respect to post players with the ball.

Am I missing something here? Weren't we all given an interpretation last year that said a ball handler was considered any player, including one in the post? This isn't a new rule, this is just new language being added to the book that is being passed off as a new rule.

There is nothing new from NFHS this year

Did you read post #27?

At least they didn't just do something for the sake of doing something.

Look at the bright side - no 'color of socks' rule at least!

Don't wake a sleeping giant.

I just checked both the NFHS.org website and the NFHS Central Hub on ArbiterSports and this press release still is not posted on either website.

Congratulations for the OhioHSAA for getting this information out to its boys' and girls' officials.

MTD, Sr.

There's nothing new. Not a thing.

How can they make a claim like rebounding vioaltions are among the leading cause of injuries that are happening?

Did they commision a study?

Are they just asking people what they see and remember because most officials aren't going to know about a sprain or strain or contusion at the time it happens its going to be in the days following . . .

Or are they using an arbitrary statement like "among the leading causes" because they can't technically be wrong but don't have any valid evidence . ..

I don't mind making rebounding action a POE but I would like a rationale for anything to be a little more grounded in evidence then the information provided.

As I recall from seeing other releases on football and baseball, they indeed do have a long-standing and well-maintained injury database going back quite a few years. Now, of course, it's only as good as the input data but that would be true of any study.

Edited to add: Here's further information on the study...one of the sponsors is the CDC.

http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/co...s/default.aspx

The language in the release also doesn't make sense because NF doesn't define "post players" and the "lane area" in the rule book (NCAA defines both).

NF would also be wise to spend a few bucks on a proofreader.

After I clicked on this link, I looked around the site and found a link to some old films from the 1930s that showed games from the Illinois state tournament. In the clip from 1933, it showed the Thornton HS team (Harvey, Illinois) playing for the state championship. They won, 14-13. One of the players shown on the Thornton team was sophomore Lou Boudreaux, who later became an MLB star, manager and radio announcer. Lou went to HS with my step-father and they were really good friends. I met Lou a few times.

The court shown had no center court line, had free throw lanes only six feet apart and those lanes with the circle on top looked like a keyhole, which is where the phrase "the key" came from (according to the movie). They also center jumped after every basket.

Oh yeah, the refs were wearing black and white striped shirts with light colored tan pants.

I see we also have some editorial changes related to fashion police rules. :rolleyes:

It so much better now, headbands, wristbands, sleeves and tights have to match and must be white, beige, black or predominant color of jersey, and the same for all team members.

Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 

I'm underwhelmed.

NFHS Basketball Rules Changes - 2015-16

10-6-12: The following acts constitute a foul when committed against a ball handler/dribbler. A player becomes a ball handler when he/she receives the ball. This would include a player in a post position.
a. Placing two hands on the player.
b. Placing an extended arm bar on the player.
c. Placing and keeping a hand on the player.
d. Contacting the player more than once with the same hand or alternating hands.

Officials Signal Chart and Officials Manual: Establish a signal to be used after a basket is made and there is a stoppage in play. The signal is used by the officials to indicate the team inbounding the ball may run the baseline. The signal will be executed by extending the arm laterally, bending the elbow at a 90-degree angle, moving the hand and forearm from the elbow in a waving motion horizontally along the end line. A new picture will need to be added to the signal chart.

2015-16 Major Editorial Changes

3-4-2c: By state association adoption one commemorative/memorial patch may be worn on the jersey. The patch shall not exceed 4 square inches, shall not be a number and must be located above the neckline or in the side insert.

3-5-3c: All sleeves/tights shall be the same solid color and must be the same color as any headband or wristband worn.

3-5-4a: Headbands and wristbands shall be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the jersey and the same color for each item and all participants. They must be the same color as any sleeve/tights worn. See 3-6 for logo requirements.

2015-16 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
1.Post Play
2.Rebounding
3.Free Throw Shooter
4.NFHS Signals and Mechanics

A Step Ahead Of You ...
 

We unilaterally decided to do this in Connecticut last season. We thought that a rule (sleeves, headbands, wristbands - all the same color) would be easier for players, coaches, and officials, to understand than last season's NFHS rule that would allow a headband to be a different color than an arm sleeve.

It wasn't easier to understand.

And it wasn't just the coaches, and players, that misunderstood the rule.

I guess that, in Connecticut, we're way ahead of our time, except in not assigning three officials to a game, and allowing officials to wear black belts. On second thought, never mind.

What about Byron collars? Are they coming back too?

Yeah - and with long sleeve shirts! :eek:

https://www.ump-attire.com/products/...humb/FB112.gif

Actually - here's the new ref jersey coming out this year. Cool.

http://i.imgur.com/nDM7XFw.jpg

Steady As She Goes ...
 

Connecticut is often referred to as "The Land Of Steady Habits". There's got to be some underlying reason for this title.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.Osqx...g&pid=15.1&P=0

That is only available in southern California.

Oh thank goodness, for a second I was worried they weren't going to make editorial changes related to fashion police nonsense.

And yet the trainwreck that is Rule 9-9 still remains.

Maybe it's just me but...aren't these rule changes as opposed to editorial changes? Editorial, to me, means the rule is rewritten to add some clarity or correct a typo from the previous rule book. What I'm seeing here is a change in the rules themselves.

Yes, of course they are, but as has been pointed out on this forum many times, the NFHS doesn't operate in a competent or logical manner.

In fact, the labeling of the rules and editorial changes are actually reversed in the NFHS announcement this year. Imagine that!

Did they somehow make this WORSE? A reasonable team member/coach/parent could read this and conclude sleeves/tights no longer need to be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the jersey UNLESS team members are wearing headbands/wristbands.

If you're not wearing bands (and I'd say most people don't), every color under the rainbow seems in play for sleeves/tights.

Am I missing something?

Usually it means:

"This is what we meant it to be last year when we changed it, but the person we assigned to write the new rule didn't understand that. So, now we're 'editting' it to make it what we really intended for it to be all along. (At least, that's what were telling you now because you don't know any better and we don't feel like admitting that we made a mistake in the first place.)"

While train wreck occurs in 9-9, it's caused by the team control rule.

I used to be bothered by poor writing, but at some point I just let it go. Doesn't change a thing about how I officiate a game.

Officials Signal Chart and Officials Manual: Establish a signal to be used after a basket is made and there is a stoppage in play. The signal is used by the officials to indicate the team inbounding the ball may run the baseline. The signal will be executed by extending the arm laterally, bending the elbow at a 90-degree angle, moving the hand and forearm from the elbow in a waving motion horizontally along the end line. A new picture will need to be added to the signal chart.


So which one is it, baseline or end line?

Absolutely amazing that know one actually cares to edit a paragraph and use the correct terms.

No wonder there are so many different interpretations of the rules!!!:mad:

I know one who finds this post ironic. :cool:

I no. +1.

Me to :cool:

Dallas Shirley Says ........
 

My 2nd camp ever ( 1989 ) I believe....Dallas Shirley jumped all over a bunch of us for using the term "baseline ".....from that point on I have always said end line... For you guys west of the Appalachian Mountains, there was no other like J. Dallas Shirley....considering he is in the HOF in Springfield it is END LINE. Case closed !!!!

Sleeves/Tights Color Choices ???
 

Maybe a casebook-like interpretation will make this clearer?

Yes you are. It's really simple. The sleeves and tights must match the headbands and wristbands. Since wrist and head bands must be black, white, beige or uniform color, the same goes for the sleeves and tights. They all have to be the same color if worn. It isn't that hard.

I do not know if it will be easy either. We had a lot of different colors. We have many times colors that were not solid (if you include the stitching). And parents do not read these rules. And that includes the undergarments that were worn that are more complicated to remove. Again, why do they care what color stuff is?

Peace

As to the above cited fashion police rule revisions as well as the "post players"actual addition to 10-6-12, I am neither overwhelmed nor underwhelmed.
Call me whelmed.
No problem this stuff being implemented this coming year.

Colour My World (Chicago, 1970) ...
 

To be able to easily identify teams, and numbers.

I worked a boys high school varsity scrimmage back in the fall where both teams wore scrimmage vests, one team blue, and the other team white. Because it was only a scrimmage, we let both teams wear any color undershirt that the players wanted to wear, and we ended up with about a half dozen different color undershirts, including opponents with the same color undershirts.

It was not very easy to identify teams, especially during rebounding action under the basket.

Granted, the NFHS has gone overboard with some of the "Fashion Police" rules, but same of the color rules are really needed.

I am not talking about jersey. :rolleyes:

I guess traveling must be really hard for you too?


I have never had a problem before identifying the color of head bands and wrist bands. Remember we had no color restrictions of these items before.

Peace

I know what he is saying and there is a hole in the rule. The color restrictions are on the headbands/wrist bands. It only says that sleeves much match any headbands/wristbands. If there are none, then there is nothing to match. So, are there really any color restrictions? I know what they meant, but the wording leaves open the possibility of the sleeves being any color at all, as long as all sleeves match each other.

Particularly when the won is far more egregious than mixing baseline and endline.

If that is all he had to complain about, you were not getting your money's worth. That is a waste of time, IMO. It is a distinction without a difference. I don't care who he was, at least he could have picked a term that actually conveyed something incorrect.

if A and B have color restrictions, and C and D must match A and B, C and D have color restrictions. It really isn't hard, I just don't get why would be confusing at all. I do understand the NFHS has editorial, and wording problems everywhere, but if you understand the intent of the rule, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Right or wrong, all of this will likely be clarified in their Guidebook or on the Power Point. It will be a little more than wording that will be at issue.

Peace

... except there usually aren't any A & B, especially in boys games, so there's nothing to match.

Last year's rules clearly indicated the colors for each (bands & sleeves/tights), albeit not in the same order, which is symptomatic of the lack of attention to detail we're harping on.

Now, in their effort to have them match, they suddenly (and unwittingly) left out the color specifications for "C & D."

Of course "everyone" understands the intent of the rule ... except the parents who buy the gear, the players who ask for it and the coaches/ADs who read these hacky rules and rightfully tell them, "Yup, as far as I can tell, you're good to go."

Just because WE know what the NFHS meant to say, it's hard to explain to someone who reads the rules and justifiably comes back with, "Ummm, it doesn't say that."

No, it's not likely to cause too many of us problems, but that doesn't make it any less pathetic.

I know that is what they meant, but what they wrote is different.

If A and B don't exist, then there is no color for C and D to match.

Rainbow Connection ...
 

And neither was I.

I was talking about undershirts, one of the items some consider to be a frivolous "Fashion Police" issue.

Again, there have to be some color rules, sure there are too many right now in the rulebook (wrist bands, headbands, sleeves), but there still have to be some. We can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let's be sure to just throw out the bathwater.

My thing with this session of deciding on rules/mechanics/signals, I don't even think there had to be too many drastic rules changes (though what was asked of us in the survey suggested that big changes will be in the way in the future)...

If you don't want to change too much this year rules wise, is it too much to add some f'n signals to the book?! There are so many common signals that could have been added especially this year...borrowed from the pro/college ranks, that are easy and give clear information. Off the topic of my head:

Hit to the head
Hook
Armbar
Two hands on the dribbler
Trip
Chuck
Violation of verticality (some would say the frankenstein signal)

I'm probably forgetting a signal or two (punch all "offensive fouls" or fists for a blocking foul)...but the point is we could add so many more signals that would more clearly denote what type of foul is called...

Yet they add a signal that officials have been using for at least 10 years already. Most officials are gonna see that "change" and think it was already in the books already.

Camron's right. If the goal is for sleeves/tights to be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the jersey then write that into the rule.

What? Color restrictions were written into the rule last year.


Basketball Comments on the Rules - 2014-15

By on November 21, 2014

TEAM MEMBER’S EQUIPMENT, APPAREL (3-5-3 NEW): The 2013-14 rule implementation regarding arm and leg sleeves was difficult to monitor and enforce by contest officials and coaches. Anything worn on the arm and/or leg is considered to be a sleeve, except a knee brace, and shall meet the color restrictions. Tights that extend below the knee are now legal and must meet the color restrictions by rule. Medical verification of arm and leg compression sleeves has been eliminated. All sleeves/tights shall be the same solid color per individual player. The sleeves/tights shall be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the uniform. The same color arm and leg sleeves/tights shall be worn by all teammates. For example, the guidelines specify that if white arm sleeves are worn, then the leg sleeves/tights must also be white.


All they did this year is say that they must all match, they didn't take away the color restrictions.

I agree that it is the ENDLINE and not the baseline. And don't forget J. Dallas' most famous quote: "Never say never and never say always!"

MTD, Sr.

+1. Like I said before, the irony for me is that the evaluated perception of my game is better when I do use these signals to more effectively communicate. Occasionally I stumble across a federation purist who reads me the riot act regarding "approved signals," and I pretend to care, keep my mouth shut, and then move on. Oddly, my schedule continues to improve each year, anyway.

Why do they need a signal for this...

http://www.dirtybutton.com/media/db1...-some-nuts.jpg

IAABO Signal Suggestions ...
 

I give these (below) signal suggestions to IAABO every year, and get rejected every year.

1) Change “Delayed Lane Violation” to “Delayed Dead Ball: Withheld Whistle” to allow for delayed free throw violations that do not involve a lane violation, i.e. disconcertion, or three point arc violation.

Rationale: Presently, IAABO does not have a signal for delayed violations such as disconcertion, or a three point arc violation. IAABO only has a signal for a delayed violation on a lane violation.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5343/1...3a43473f_m.jpg

2) Add supplemental “Intentional Foul: Excessive Contact” signal.

Rationale: Adding this signal to the chart will allow officials to differentiate between intentional fouls for “excessive contact with an opponent while playing the ball” from the other types of intentional fouls.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7756/1...cfc19d22_m.jpg

3) Change “Five Second Closely Guarded”” to “Five Second Closely Guarded And Five Second Throwin Violation”

Rationale: Presently, there is no signal on the IAABO chart for a five second throwin violation. It’s the same signal for a five second closely guarded violation, but it’s not specifically described in the IAABO signal chart label.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5470/1...e4f044fa_m.jpg

4) Add “Shooter Has Foot Touching Three Point Line” signal.

Rationale: This signal has been used in Connecticut successfully for several years. It gives coaches, fans, and scorekeepers more information than the signals that we presently use for three point attempts. With this signal, coaches, fans, and scorekeepers will know, for sure, that the successful attempt will only be two points.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7682/1...ba697fe8_m.jpg

Color Anarchy ???
 

Nor did we have color restrictions on undershirts before such a rule ("The Patrick Ewing Rule") was added in the NFHS rulebook.

In fact, Dr. Naismith’s original Thirteen Rules Of Basketball didn't have any rules regarding the color of uniforms, or equipment. Nothing about color. Period. But rules evolve over time, sometimes, unfortunately, becoming quite, in my opinion regarding wrist bands, headbands, and sleeves, burdensome.

Well we are not talking about undershirts. The undershirt rule was changed several more years ago. I believe that rule was changed in the 90s.

Peace

Wasn't This A George Carlin Routine ???
 

Maybe you weren't, but I certainly was, as an example of why "they care what color stuff is", and I see no reason why I can't be part of "we". "Stuff" can refer to an undershirt because some believe that undershirts fall under frivolous "Fashion Police" issues.

Now if you want to call color restrictions on wrist bands, headbands, and sleeves, "frivolous", then we can certainly agree on that.

No where in this conversation or in the new rules is there anything about undershirts. And the undershirts have nothing to do with color rules of headbands/wristbands or sleeves/tights. The rule is clear on undershirts, they have to match the jersey. People are not going to be possibly wearing 10 different jerseys. They can and will 10 different versions of the items were are discussing and are in the current rules announcement. Because they do not have a restriction on socks or shoes which can be all types of colors. So why worry about some other item that a school does not purchase or administer their players to wear directly.

Peace

According to the release linked in this thread, they did. The one sentence referencing sleeves/tights does not mention colors at all.

Yes, colors were listed last year. We all agree. It appears, however, they've been removed. That's the crux of this whole discussion.