Or maybe they just paraphrased it in the release. I guess we will see when the books come out.

My mistake. OK is right. NF only changed the specifics of 3-5-3c. 3-5-3a specifies the colors of sleeves/tights.

I've Joined The Conversation ...
 

New rules? You are correct. No reference to undershirts.

Conversation? You are incorrect, even if it's only me.

Question was asked:

An answer was offered:

One could speculate that another possible reason is that the NFHS wants to prevent a motley mix of uniform, and equipment, colors that could possibly take away from the integrity, and dignity, of the game.

Undershirts can be "stuff", especially to those officials who hate being "Fashion Police", and who may consider color restrictions on undershirts to be frivolous (we have a few of these officials here in my little corner of Connecticut). Perhaps if you had added a modifier, i.e., "this stuff", instead of just, "stuff", then I may not have used undershirts as an example of a necessary color restriction based on the scrimmage example that I stated.

It appears that the NFHS believes that allowing a variety of colors for wrist bands, headbands, and sleeves, may make it more difficult for officials to "easily identify teams, and numbers", just as they probably believe the same problem exists for a variety of colors for jerseys, and undershirts.

My general point, not specific to just undershirts, is that there could be, in theory, a continuum that runs from total freedom from any color restrictions (Dr. Naismith’s original Thirteen Rules Of Basketball), which we can all agree would be difficult to officiate, to color restrictions for everything worn from headbands, and hair control devices, all the way down to underwear, shorts, compression shorts, socks, and shoes ("Fashion Gestapo"), which we could all agree would be unbelievably burdensome to officiate.

The NFHS has decided on color restrictions for uniforms, and equipment, that lies somewhere along that continuum.

It's where the NFHS draws that line in the "continuum sand" that we continually debate here on the Forum.

Many, including me, could argue that color restrictions on wrist bands, headbands, and sleeves, go a little too far, and should be outside the realm of game officials (but I'm still enforcing the rule).

A few, not including me, may argue that color restrictions on undershirts go too far (and sometimes choose not to enforce said rule).

Bottom line, the NFHS does have to "care what color stuff is", to be able to easily identify teams, and numbers, and, possibly, to protect the integrity, and dignity, of the game.

The devil is in the detail.

I remember when the only NFHS color restrictions were home team light (not just white) color jerseys, and road team dark color jerseys. Period. Over the three and a half decades that I've been officiating, the NFHS has expanded their definition of "stuff" to the point where, recently, they sent out a survey asking opinions on further expanding the definition of "stuff" to include socks.

When does the madness stop? Someday, in the future, the NFHS may limit the basketball to an exact, specific, color. Wait? I'm being told ... What? Pantone Matching System Orange 151, Red-Orange 173, or Brown 1535? What the hell does that mean? ... Never mind.

Finally got around to reading the NFHS rule-change release, and found this little gem:

Oof, that could get messy.

Ok....
 

If you say so Billy, but thanks for interjecting something no one here was talking about. I am not talking about basketballs, undershirts and color of the darn rim or backboard.

I was talking about these rules the NF keeps playing around with and putting color restrictions on which no one cares about. Let the damn kids wear whatever they like. Maybe you make it where they can wear one solid color, but who cares if it is green or red or black. It causes too many conflicts that we do not need to have. The schools do not issue these things, so why cares what color they wear. All we need is to determine the jersey color. Heck the pants can be 10 different colors under the rules, but we are worried about a head band that is mostly used to keep sweat out of your eyes.

Peace

The Color Of Money ...
 

We certainly agree here. I'm tired of enforcing a color restrictions on headbands, wrist bands, and sleeves, and getting an earful of, "But we were allowed to wear that Tuesday night". That's certainly not a good way to develop good rapport with a coach before the game even starts. It's also not a good way to build good rapport with a partner that choses not to enforce such rules. The NFHS should lower their color restriction standards to only those that could affect how the game is officiated.

We probably disagree on color restrictions on undershirts. As I've stated in a previous post, different color undershirts, especially opponents with the same color undershirts, can create some degree of difficultly identifying the team that a player is on, especially in a cluster of rebounding players pushing each other, that a simple "undershirt same color as jersey" rule can remedy.

I'm guessing if we saw a rash of schools using shorts with different colors, the NFHS would quickly address it.

Well I have seen this a few times. There are poor schools in poor areas that cannot issue everything. And if the NFHS did do something, they would be just as stupid as ever IMO.

Peace

I am still trying to figure out what you are reading? I did not say anything about the undershirt needing to be a different color. I am not even saying that the rule should be changed. I am once again, only talking about an arm sleeve or a headband that can be very easily removed in most cases. You are trying to mention something that once again, I never was talking about in the context of this conversation. :rolleyes:

Peace

Mea Culpa ...
 

In this thread on "Fashion Police" issues, you have implied that you don't see the need for color restrictions on wrist bands, headbands, and sleeves ("stuff"), but you do seem to see the need for such restrictions on the color of the jersey, something that you, and I, seem to agree upon.

Since you never stated that you agreed with me on undershirt ("stuff") color restrictions, I just assumed that you disagreed with me. If I assumed incorrectly, then I sincerely apologize.

Unlike Felix Unger, in this case, I've only made an ass out of me.

https://youtu.be/LfvTwv5o1Qs

Please, If There Is A God, No Color Restrictions For Shorts ...
 

It happens here all the time. Teams will often have different color shorts for junior varsity, and varsity, uniforms. When a junior varsity player is added to the roster for the varsity game (filling in for an absent player, getting rewarded for hard work, etc.), the player is often still wearing the junior varsity shorts.

Again, you created a disagreement on an issue we were never talking about. And unless you have a problem officiating different kids that are different skin tones, I do not think it is impossible to officiate kids with different color items on their arms and legs that happened to be on the same team.

Let the record show, these are you words, not mine.

Peace

Color Restrictions ...
 

Impossible? Absolutely not.

I was talking about an issue (how can you continue to say the "we were never talking about" it, we were, I'm part of we, a dues paying, esteemed, member in good standing, of the Forum), and I don't appreciate being ignored, especially with responses that indicate that my posts have been read, but, never the less, ignored as if they didn't exist. And if you want to ignore my post, then you are certainly free to do so, but be sure to really ignore the post, a sure sign that the post was ignored would be a nonresponse to the post.

And I don't believe that I should be called on the carpet for expanding the scope, while still very much on topic, of a thread.

Why do you continue to insist on not broaching, or responding to, the subject of color restrictions for undershirts? It's certainly on topic: NFHS color restrictions for uniforms, and equipment.

Color restrictions should make the game easier to officiate. Those color restrictions that don't make the game easier to officiate should be stricken from the rulebook. From the waist, to the neck, not including the wrists, I believe that members of the same team should be wearing the same color. I don't care what they wear on their heads, on their wrists, and below the waist. Thus, all team members should be wearing the same color jerseys, with undershirts the same color as the jersey, since undershirts can give the appearance of a (legal) long sleeve jersey.

NFHS color restrictions on headbands, wrist bands, compression shorts, and leg sleeves, only make the game harder, not easier, to officiate by creating conflicts between an official, the players, the coaches, and sometimes, the official's partner. NFHS color restrictions that don't make the game easier to officiate, make it harder to officiate.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but, I really don't see any disagreement between us on this issue?

Are we still not talking about undershirts? If we weren't before, we certainly are now.

Billy,

You were responding to my comments I made. Then you tried to drag me into a disagreement about something I was not addressing or no one was addressing in this conversation. I realize you seem like a person that does not get out much, but stop telling me what I should talk about because you are hung up on something personally. I do not want to broaden a conversation when the only thing we are talking about (in this actual thread) is this current rule change in the language. If you want to have a conversation about what should happen with undershirt, I am sure there are people that would love to have that conversation with you. But other than you including me in this constant silly rantings of yours, I seem to be the only person talking about these things the way you are. No one else is even addressing undershirts and their color if you have not noticed.

Since sleeves are a new phenomenon in the last 5 to 7 years or so and head bands hardly were even worn for a long stretch, trying to regulate them is equivalent to me as trying to say that everyone should wear a certain color socks. Players have been wearing undershirts for a much longer time and the rule as applied to what can be worn for a longer period of time. And I will never understand why you keep talking about undershirts when we are not going to resolve anything here. Even with sleeves and head bands, the NF does not care what we think. So why is is so important I not ignore your issue? Please do not answer that, I am not wanting an answer.

Peace

No One ???
 

I have already apologized for assuming that you disagreed with a color restriction on undershirts. Accept it, or not.

I'm not "no one". I find that very disrespectful, and belittling. I was addressing this issue in the conversation (thread).

And, "Stuff" can include undershirts. That's the entire basis for my posts in this thread. Maybe you should have been clearer that, "Stuff", was only referring to items mentioned in the new rule change.

Well you are a no one in this process, just like I am a no one. Nothing we say here is going to change what the NF committees do or do not do. Even if someone reads this site, I doubt the vast majority of the committee knows this place exists or is going to vote or not vote based on such a small sample of officials. So yes, you are a no one to them.


Billy, was my comments directed at you at all? And I have not only officiated in Chicago. I happen to belong to an area that is larger than most of your state and certainly do have experiences well outside of Chicago from an officiating and living point of view. But you constantly reference Chicago in your comments towards me and you wonder why I am a little annoyed? Is anyone having an issue with what I have said about this? Nope. Sounds to me you are fighting a one man crusade. But that is typical for you. Not sure why I should be surprised.

Peace

Good Question ...
 

I never believed that anything mentioned on this site will create changes in NFHS rules. But we can still post opinions.

(Note: The NFHS basketball rules committee actually looked at two of my suggestions this year, so one person can make a difference.)

All I was doing was responding to your statement:

Good question. All I did was try to give an good answer.

Go Cubs, Or Go White Sox ...
 

Whether it's Chicagoland, or my little corner of Connecticut, one thing that I've learned after joining this Forum is that basketball rule interpretations, and mechanics, are very much a local, or state, phenomena, i.e., the whistle sounded before the officials enter the court to prevent pregame dunking technical fouls in Texas; or the officials observing the post game handshakes in Massachusetts.

I wish I had a dollar every time the phrase, "When in Rome ...", was mentioned here on the Forum.

I believe that I have never said anything derogatory about the officiating in the Chicago area, or any place else for that matter, and if I have, point it out me, and I will certainly apologize.

I was not asking for an answer from you. And if I was, I was still not talking about anything outside of the sleeves and bands, not talking about an undershirt or color of the basketball, which you referenced.

Peace