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-   -   Gonzaga vs Duke Push with ball (Video) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/99613-gonzaga-vs-duke-push-ball-video.html)

just another ref Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:13am
Gonzaga vs Duke Push with ball (Video)
 
At 1:28 of the first half Sabonis for Gonzaga was called for a PC foul. I think the lead made the call so he probably couldn't see that the contact was with the basketball. We have discussed this play here and some say this can't be a personal foul. (I disagree) This is the first time I recall seeing this play actually happen.

Multiple Sports Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:45am
And I don't disagree with them unless it is blatantly flagrant.....here comes the rules guys with their justification ( come on Billy Mac ) ☺☺☺☺

Rich Mon Mar 30, 2015 06:34am
I saw the play. I'd call that a foul every time.


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BillyMac Mon Mar 30, 2015 07:16am
Scratching My Head ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 959537)
I saw the play. I'd call that a foul every time.
As would I. But on a written test, I'm not sure how I would answer it? Probably a personal foul, but I would lose sleep until I got the test graded. Especially if the question stated that the official charged a technical foul, followed by the question, "Was the official correct?". IAABO Refresher Exams are known to have a few odd questions, and a few odd answers, each year.

Before I joined the Forum, ten years ago, I would have called this a personal foul in a New York minute, but threads regarding this situation have made me question whether, or not, the written rule matches the situation exactly.

rpayne64bball Mon Mar 30, 2015 07:31am
I wouldn't call it a personal foul. I had a partner this season who did. (Testing tapatalk with this post)

ODog Mon Mar 30, 2015 08:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich (Post 959537)
i saw the play. I'd call that a foul every time.
+1

deecee Mon Mar 30, 2015 08:27am
Using the ball as you own personal mechanism to displace an opponent may not be specifically spelled out in the rule book for some folks on here but here is a spot where common sense should kick in.

Rich Mon Mar 30, 2015 08:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 959539)
As would I. But on a written test, I'm not sure how I would answer it? Probably a personal foul, but I would lose sleep until I got the test graded. Especially if the question stated that the official charged a technical foul, followed by the question, "Was the official correct?". IAABO Refresher Exams are known to have a few odd questions, and a few odd answers, each year.



Before I joined the Forum, ten years ago, I would have called this a personal foul in a New York minute, but threads regarding this situation have made me question whether, or not, the written rule matches the situation exactly.

We're able to get 10 wrong on a test. I wouldn't sweat this one.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 959537)
I saw the play. I'd call that a foul every time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 959539)
As would I. But on a written test, I'm not sure how I would answer it? Probably a personal foul, but I would lose sleep until I got the test graded. Especially if the question stated that the official charged a technical foul, followed by the question, "Was the official correct?". IAABO Refresher Exams are known to have a few odd questions, and a few odd answers, each year.

Before I joined the Forum, ten years ago, I would have called this a personal foul in a New York minute, but threads regarding this situation have made me question whether, or not, the written rule matches the situation exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 959549)
Using the ball as you own personal mechanism to displace an opponent may not be specifically spelled out in the rule book for some folks on here but here is a spot where common sense should kick in.

I did not see the play in question (was attending a mandatory OhioASA umpires meeting), but I am in agreement with the above, this is a PCF each and every time at the very least.

MTD, Sr.

JRutledge Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:17am
I am not calling a PC foul with the ball when I can knock the ball out of your hand or grab the ball. The only way I would call something it would have to be a technical for using the ball in an unsporting fashion.

Peace

Pantherdreams Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:50pm
Like most things I assume this is a learned behaviour. I doubt a college freshmen who's played all over the world got stressed and suddenly in a moment of desperate improvisation thought "I'll push him with the ball and see what happens!"

If he's doing it he's done it before. If it has consistently been called a foul before he probably wouldn't be doing it now and at this level. That would tend to imply that there are a lot of officials who do not see it as a foul.

JRutledge Mon Mar 30, 2015 02:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams (Post 959591)
Like most things I assume this is a learned behaviour. I doubt a college freshmen who's played all over the world got stressed and suddenly in a moment of desperate improvisation thought "I'll push him with the ball and see what happens!"

If he's doing it he's done it before. If it has consistently been called a foul before he probably wouldn't be doing it now and at this level. That would tend to imply that there are a lot of officials who do not see it as a foul.
I have never seen anyone expose the ball like that by using it and bringing it to a defender so they can easily steal it. If it is taught, there are not many defenders smart enough to realize he just gave a better opportunity to take the ball.

Peace

deecee Mon Mar 30, 2015 03:07pm
Since the hand is part of the ball the ball is part of the hand. PC foul all the way, why should the rules care that the defender had a "better" chance at a steal?

Then we should call all fouls based on who had the best chance at a positive outcome.

JRutledge Mon Mar 30, 2015 03:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 959623)
Since the hand is part of the ball the ball is part of the hand. PC foul all the way, why should the rules care that the defender had a "better" chance at a steal?

Then we should call all fouls based on who had the best chance at a positive outcome.
What rule says that? The only rule that says that we pass on contact is when hand is hit when it is contact with the ball. Nothing in the rules says the actions of a hand has anything to do with contact to call a foul.

I also did not say the rules had anything to do with a better chance to steal the ball. But if you extend my arms into your body, I can steal the ball easier. That is probably why you do not see this very often (at least I don't). Heck players are taught to protect the ball, not give the defender a better chance to take it from them.

Peace

MD Longhorn Mon Mar 30, 2015 03:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 959623)
Since the hand is part of the ball the ball is part of the hand. PC foul all the way, why should the rules care that the defender had a "better" chance at a steal?

Then we should call all fouls based on who had the best chance at a positive outcome.
My basketball doesn't have hands attached to it. (Neither does my baseball bat).


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