Duke vs Virginia Tech Charge Call (Video)

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Easy(in theory) charge.

Is it just me or is the VT coach calling for a timeout well before the play happened?

Yes he was. I feel the Trail should have recognized this.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Yes he was. I feel the Trail should have recognized this.

Needed to be more demonstrative. I had to replay it again to be sure.

[Nevadaref]

Absolutely a charging foul!
This play does not involve an airborne offensive player, so the legal defender may be moving sideways at the time of contact.
To make it even clearer, the dribbler also drops his head and shoulder into the defender. Those are big cues that the foul has likely been committed by the offensive player.

[just another ref]

I thought he embellished it a bit, but he didn't need to. Good call.

[biggravy]

Shipping that all day, but some game awareness probably gets a TO instead of a PC.

[letemplay]

Sorry, but I will once again differ entirely from most if not ALL of your opinions here. Fry me if you want, and I'm not saying the incorrect call was made by today's rules/interps on the b/c plays, but I'm gonna stick up for the offensive player(s) on this one. What's a guy supposed to do? The VT player's dribbling in a straight line towards his basket, the defensive player takes a position in that line (LGP), dribbler sees path blocked and CHANGES PATH, planting his right foot and begins to make move to his left to go by defender, who reacts to this move by throwing himself into this NEW path. Sure he takes it in the chest from the offensive player, cuz he put himself there, leaving no chance whatsoever for the dribbler to do anything else. And for those of you saying the dribbler was responsible because he ducked and lowered his shoulder, try dribbling in a little traffic and make a crossover and do it standing up and not going into a bit of a forward lean..it's a natural movement. When he decided to go to his left there was space and he got into that space, only to encounter the defender has thrown himself there. IMO, to call plays this way is just wrong and is taking away from the game. I know by rule no time and distance are needed, but I would argue that there should be. It is NOT what I feel the player control fouls were originally written for: to give a defender a legit chance of standing his ground on a guy intent on driving to basket or any other spot regardless of anyone in his way.
Contrast this Duke-VT play (and countless others like it) with a play last night where Lebron is called for a block on a Curry drive (prob midways thru 3rd Q)..look at that and decide which defender did more to impede guy with ball. Maybe NBA looks at this differently...
I know this has been debated over and over here and sure looks like I'm the lone ranger on this once again, but I'm not gonna change my opinion of it

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Sorry, but I will once again differ entirely from most if not ALL of your opinions here. Fry me if you want, and I'm not saying the incorrect call was made by today's rules/interps on the b/c plays, but I'm gonna stick up for the offensive player(s) on this one. What's a guy supposed to do? The VT player's dribbling in a straight line towards his basket, the defensive player takes a position in that line (LGP), dribbler sees path blocked and CHANGES PATH, planting his right foot and begins to make move to his left to go by defender, who reacts to this move by throwing himself into this NEW path. Sure he takes it in the chest from the offensive player, cuz he put himself there, leaving no chance whatsoever for the dribbler to do anything else. And for those of you saying the dribbler was responsible because he ducked and lowered his shoulder, try dribbling in a little traffic and make a crossover and do it standing up and not going into a bit of a forward lean..it's a natural movement. When he decided to go to his left there was space and he got into that space, only to encounter the defender has thrown himself there. IMO, to call plays this way is just wrong and is taking away from the game. I know by rule no time and distance are needed, but I would argue that there should be. It is NOT what I feel the player control fouls were originally written for: to give a defender a legit chance of standing his ground on a guy intent on driving to basket or any other spot regardless of anyone in his way.
Contrast this Duke-VT play (and countless others like it) with a play last night where Lebron is called for a block on a Curry drive (prob midways thru 3rd Q)..look at that and decide which defender did more to impede guy with ball. Maybe NBA looks at this differently...
I know this has been debated over and over here and sure looks like I'm the lone ranger on this once again, but I'm not gonna change my opinion of it

If it was called the way you would like, how would a defender be able to stop a drive to basket? The defender got to the spot first. Why should the offensive player allowed to have the defenders spot?

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Sorry, but I will once again differ entirely from most if not ALL of your opinions here. Fry me if you want, and I'm not saying the incorrect call was made by today's rules/interps on the b/c plays, but I'm gonna stick up for the offensive player(s) on this one. What's a guy supposed to do? The VT player's dribbling in a straight line towards his basket, the defensive player takes a position in that line (LGP), dribbler sees path blocked and CHANGES PATH, planting his right foot and begins to make move to his left to go by defender, who reacts to this move by throwing himself into this NEW path. Sure he takes it in the chest from the offensive player, cuz he put himself there, leaving no chance whatsoever for the dribbler to do anything else. And for those of you saying the dribbler was responsible because he ducked and lowered his shoulder, try dribbling in a little traffic and make a crossover and do it standing up and not going into a bit of a forward lean..it's a natural movement. When he decided to go to his left there was space and he got into that space, only to encounter the defender has thrown himself there. IMO, to call plays this way is just wrong and is taking away from the game. I know by rule no time and distance are needed, but I would argue that there should be. It is NOT what I feel the player control fouls were originally written for: to give a defender a legit chance of standing his ground on a guy intent on driving to basket or any other spot regardless of anyone in his way.
Contrast this Duke-VT play (and countless others like it) with a play last night where Lebron is called for a block on a Curry drive (prob midways thru 3rd Q)..look at that and decide which defender did more to impede guy with ball. Maybe NBA looks at this differently...
I know this has been debated over and over here and sure looks like I'm the lone ranger on this once again, but I'm not gonna change my opinion of it

Sorry but with this philosophy a defender can't cut off a drive to the basket and play legitimate defense. The rules should not favor the o or d. Your description would give o a distinct advantage and would not be neutral

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by letemplay

I know this has been debated over and over here and sure looks like I'm the lone ranger on this once again, but I'm not gonna change my opinion of it

There really is nothing to debate here. Per not only the rules but the spirit and the intent of the rules, this is a PC foul.

Your opinion, which you don't want to change, is completely contrary to the rules. That's a really dangerous attitude to have as an official.

[APG]

First, I don't officiate plays like this with regard to a "lowering" of the shoulder. There's nothing inherently illegal about do this. I just officiate the legality of the defender and go from there.

Originally Posted by letemplay

Maybe NBA looks at this differently...

A defender is not required to give time and distance to a dribbler under NBA rules...if beats the player to the spot, it's going to the other way.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Sorry, but I will once again differ entirely from most if not ALL of your opinions here. Fry me if you want, and I'm not saying the incorrect call was made by today's rules/interps on the b/c plays, but I'm gonna stick up for the offensive player(s) on this one. What's a guy supposed to do? The VT player's dribbling in a straight line towards his basket, the defensive player takes a position in that line (LGP), dribbler sees path blocked and CHANGES PATH, planting his right foot and begins to make move to his left to go by defender, who reacts to this move by throwing himself into this NEW path. Sure he takes it in the chest from the offensive player, cuz he put himself there, leaving no chance whatsoever for the dribbler to do anything else. And for those of you saying the dribbler was responsible because he ducked and lowered his shoulder, try dribbling in a little traffic and make a crossover and do it standing up and not going into a bit of a forward lean..it's a natural movement. When he decided to go to his left there was space and he got into that space, only to encounter the defender has thrown himself there. IMO, to call plays this way is just wrong and is taking away from the game. I know by rule no time and distance are needed, but I would argue that there should be. It is NOT what I feel the player control fouls were originally written for: to give a defender a legit chance of standing his ground on a guy intent on driving to basket or any other spot regardless of anyone in his way.
Contrast this Duke-VT play (and countless others like it) with a play last night where Lebron is called for a block on a Curry drive (prob midways thru 3rd Q)..look at that and decide which defender did more to impede guy with ball. Maybe NBA looks at this differently...
I know this has been debated over and over here and sure looks like I'm the lone ranger on this once again, but I'm not gonna change my opinion of it

So basically you ignore the portion of the rulebook that says a defender can maintain LGP. To you LGP exists only for a specific spot and can never be maintained except directly backwards?