DSU/NCCU Video Request (ESPNU) (Video)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Please Vid Gurus,

Last play of the 2nd half, 3 point shot with 0.4 left. Fouled call.

Opinion on the call.

Also, after all the replays, I still don't see any of the officials signaling a foul.

PS: chance to see an official with facial hair on his chin.

Awful.
There absolutely is a whistle. There is not a fist in the air by anyone.
From the Trail's gestures to the teams after the horn, he must have been the one to blow the whistle because he appears to be the only one who is aware that a foul has been called.
Making this call from his position deep in the backcourt is sick. He has no angle to determine if there was contact. Turns out there wasn't anything illegal.
Furthermore, I believe that both the Lead and Center ran too far and put themselves in poor spots from which to observe a pull-up 3pt shot. With that little time remaining there is no need to run all the way down to the normal home locations for a half court set. It would be more intelligent officiating to anticipate a long shot and take a position which provides a quality look at that.

[mutantducky]

the center is way too far to the side.

Btw, let's say the trail called the foul and let's also say that the center was in closer and had a good look at it. Would you be ok with the center coming over and telling the trail that it wasn't a foul, rule it as an inadvertent whistle?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

the center is way too far to the side.

Btw, let's say the trail called the foul and let's also say that the center was in closer and had a good look at it. Would you be ok with the center coming over and telling the trail that it wasn't a foul, rule it as an inadvertent whistle?

No.

There was contact. That much is clear. Whether it was a foul or not is judgment. Neither official should be telling the other it wasn't a foul.

[APG]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

the center is way too far to the side.

Btw, let's say the trail called the foul and let's also say that the center was in closer and had a good look at it. Would you be ok with the center coming over and telling the trail that it wasn't a foul, rule it as an inadvertent whistle?

No.

How many times in basketball have you seen another official go to another and tell them their foul call wasn't a foul (based solely on the contact alone)? I'll tell you right now, I've never seen it.

[mutantducky]

different situation than here where the trail saw contact.

I was in the stands watching a game and doing the next one. Near the end, one of the D players(and a crafty one at that) did a complete flop on the inbounds play. I've seen him do it before in previous games but here the official called a foul on the offense. This was on an inbound play so the defender made liked he had been pushed off. The second official had a clear look at it and I talked to him after the game and he said he saw the flop but didn't want to come over and change the call. I'd have went over and talked to my partner about the call if I saw the play.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

... I'd have went over and talked to my partner about the call if I saw the play.

Good luck with that.

[APG]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

different situation than here where the trail saw contact.

I was in the stands watching a game and doing the next one. Near the end, one of the D players(and a crafty one at that) did a complete flop on the inbounds play. I've seen him do it before in previous games but here the official called a foul on the offense. This was on an inbound play so the defender made liked he had been pushed off. The second official had a clear look at it and I talked to him after the game and he said he saw the flop but didn't want to come over and change the call. I'd have went over and talked to my partner about the call if I saw the play.

Again I ask, when was the last time, in a basketball game with actual trained officials, you saw one official go to the other and try and talk him out of a foul based solely on the amount of contact?

[mutantducky]

None that I can think of.
But if one ref clearly sees it is a flop. This is a player who I knew and he was good. He led the league in scoring actually. But he also was known to do a flop once in a while, good acting job and would fall over and really ham it up. Not as bad as that Lance Stephenson play a couple of weeks ago but something along those lines.
The ref doing the inbounds may get fooled into thinking it is a foul as his eyes may be off somewhere else, so he reacts to the player falling down and assumes it is a foul. If the other refs on the court can see that it is a flop then I don't have an issue with them coming over and telling the calling official what happened.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by APG

Again I ask, when was the last time, in a basketball game with actual trained officials, you saw one official go to the other and try and talk him out of a foul based solely on the amount of contact?

Funny you should bring that up. I was at a camp last year where an NFL white hat was a guest speaker. Years ago he officiated basketball but today only does football. He said, rhetorically, "You know, in football we pick up flags all of the time. In basketball you'll sometimes come together on an out-of-bounds call, but why don't you ever come together on fouls?" I have to admit, football seems to be way ahead of us on the issue of information sharing.

Granted our culture isn't going to change overnight, and in football, where the NFL officials to players ratio is 9:22 (ours is 6.6:22 in a three-man crew), more than one set of eyes is typically on the same matchup. But still, our culture is an obstinate one, isn't it?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Funny you should bring that up. I was at a camp last year where an NFL white hat was a guest speaker. Years ago he officiated basketball but today only does football. He said, rhetorically, "You know, in football we pick up flags all of the time. In basketball you'll sometimes come together on an out-of-bounds call, but why don't you ever come together on fouls?" I have to admit, football seems to be way ahead of us on the issue of information sharing.

Granted our culture isn't going to change overnight, and in football, where the NFL officials to players ratio is 9:22 (ours is 6.6:22 in a three-man crew), more than one set of eyes is typically on the same matchup. But still, our culture is an obstinate one, isn't it?

The key difference is that on the vast majority of flags in football, the play continues. In basketball, the play stops on our whistle. Every time.

Much more conducive to picking up flags on penalties than it is to try and change a foul. In football players get to keep playing and the play stands if you decide to pick up. As opposed to what would become several inadvertent whistles in basketball. Nobody wants that.

Its a lot of what makes basketball the most difficult sport to officiate IMO. You call a foul, you live and die with it for the most part. We all miss some. You just try to get better, learn from your mistakes, and be as accurate as you can.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Granted our culture isn't going to change overnight, and in football, where the NFL officials to players ratio is 9:22

Where do they keep the other 2 officials?

Back to the OP, I have a foul. Not only is there contact on the leg, there appears to be contact on the hip.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Funny you should bring that up. I was at a camp last year where an NFL white hat was a guest speaker. Years ago he officiated basketball but today only does football. He said, rhetorically, "You know, in football we pick up flags all of the time. In basketball you'll sometimes come together on an out-of-bounds call, but why don't you ever come together on fouls?" I have to admit, football seems to be way ahead of us on the issue of information sharing.

Granted our culture isn't going to change overnight, and in football, where the NFL officials to players ratio is 9:22 (ours is 6.6:22 in a three-man crew), more than one set of eyes is typically on the same matchup. But still, our culture is an obstinate one, isn't it?

Terry McCauley???

[APG]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Awful.
There absolutely is a whistle. There is not a fist in the air by anyone.
From the Trail's gestures to the teams after the horn, he must have been the one to blow the whistle because he appears to be the only one who is aware that a foul has been called.
Making this call from his position deep in the backcourt is sick. He has no angle to determine if there was contact. Turns out there wasn't anything illegal.
Furthermore, I believe that both the Lead and Center ran too far and put themselves in poor spots from which to observe a pull-up 3pt shot. With that little time remaining there is no need to run all the way down to the normal home locations for a half court set. It would be more intelligent officiating to anticipate a long shot and take a position which provides a quality look at that.

The trail actually has a good angle to see the contact by the defender on the shooter's leg as he was passing him by.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by APG

The trail actually has a good angle to see the contact by the defender on the shooter's leg as he was passing him by.

Agree. He was in a poor position to see if there was body contact but he had a good view of the contact that did occur.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Awful.
There absolutely is a whistle. There is not a fist in the air by anyone.

I don't get it.

I had a foul at the end of a quarter of a JV girls' game last month. My fist went up, and stayed up for 5-10 seconds after the buzzer, so everyone knew we had a foul, and who ruled it.

Is this simply not an important detail officiating college games?