10 second count/rotation in transition (Video)

[APG]

Thoughts on whether there's a 10 second violation...suppose this part would be more geared toward college officials that use the shot clock. I think a case can be made that the dribbler didn't get all 3 points in the front by 20...but it's pretty close.

What about the rotation by the lead? What about the foul call (I believe the official calls a push).

Feel free to bring in any other points you find relevant.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by APG

Thoughts on whether there's a 10 second violation...suppose this part would be more geared toward college officials that use the shot clock. I think a case can be made that the dribbler didn't get all 3 points in the front by 20...but it's pretty close.

What about the rotation by the lead? What about the foul call (I believe the official calls a push).

Feel free to bring in any other points you find relevant.

1. Why are they using a 30-second shot clock instead of 35 for boys?
2. The dribbler did not get his second foot into the frontcourt before 20. It was a 10-second violation, however, it is possible that this event isn't using that rule given that the shot clock is so short, like NCAAW. In watching other games, I'm not seeing the Trail official with a visible backcourt count.
3. The rotation either should not have occurred (pure NFHS mechanics = wait until the ball settles on that side in the frontcourt, which it never did) or happened sooner (NBA mechanic = Lead gets over there as soon as he can discern that the play will be coming from that side, the old Trail hustles up from the backcourt and becomes the C). This caused him to have an awkward look at the defender challenging the shot while he was in the middle of making his rotation.
4. As the Lead, if I get caught in the middle of a late rotation (and I certainly have), I've learned that it is best to let the C make the decision on this play as he has been observing it from start to finish. Although I may be closer, the C likely has a better perspective on the action.

Other comment: This tournament is in the backyard of one of our longtime posters from whom we haven't heard in quite a while. I hope that he shows up to make a comment or two.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1.
3. The rotation either should not have occurred (pure NFHS mechanics = wait until the ball settles on that side in the frontcourt, which it never did) or happened sooner (NBA mechanic = Lead gets over there as soon as he can discern that the play will be coming from that side, the old Trail hustles up from the backcourt and becomes the C). This caused him to have an awkward look at the defender challenging the shot while he was in the middle of making his rotation.

I'll have to ask, but I think the NBA has moved away from this mechanic. I remember seeing this mechanic used more in the past...not so much anymore, but I could be wrong.

[crosscountry55]

30s shot clock is probably just to squeeze as much offense into the game as possible. It's a showcase event and you can bet college recruiters were in the building.

Looks like a NCAAM college crew because of the mechanics I see. Interesting.

Technically there should have been a 10s violation, but I liken this to football where the official needs to see 0 on the play clock and then look down to see if the ball has been snapped yet or not. It takes half a second or so. So by the time the T here noticed 20 and then looked back down, he probably couldn't say 100% that it was a violation, and therefore no whistle.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by APG

Thoughts on whether there's a 10 second violation...

Crossed just in time, I say, though you'd need tenths of seconds on the clock to be sure. We would have been dinged here had we not had a visible count in the backcourt.

What about the foul call (I believe the official calls a push).

Illegal use. It's right.

[constable]

Originally Posted by APG

Thoughts on whether there's a 10 second violation...suppose this part would be more geared toward college officials that use the shot clock. I think a case can be made that the dribbler didn't get all 3 points in the front by 20...but it's pretty close.

What about the rotation by the lead? What about the foul call (I believe the official calls a push).

Feel free to bring in any other points you find relevant.

He's over in time- not that you'd know that by the official's visible count.

It's not a push. If it was, that's the wrong signal.

[Rich]

Perhaps they aren't using a visible count. NCAA officials don't. What rules are they using? What mechanics?

Quicker rotation would be nice. Who do you want calling that foul? The lead, after completing a rotation. That said, I do think he had a pretty good look at it.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Rich

Perhaps they aren't using a visible count. NCAA officials don't. What rules are they using? What mechanics?

Quicker rotation would be nice. Who do you want calling that foul? The lead, after completing a rotation. That said, I do think he had a pretty good look at it.

None of the officials had a visible count...plus they were using NCAA-M mechanics by going opposite and two handed reporting. Not sure of the rules.

[Nevadaref]

Where is Scrapper1 to answer our questions?

[zm1283]

Who knows what rules they're using. A lot of these teams are basketball factories that don't even play under state associations and travel the country all season.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I put a stop watch on the video and timed it five times. Each time the Offensive Team used just under ten seconds to get the Ball into its Frontcourt. The average time was 9.78 seconds.

Therefore, no Ten-Second Violation.

MTD, Sr.

[mutantducky]

it was a 9.78 violation

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

it was a 9.78 violation

If you can prove that: 9.78 > 10, then you just might have a chance to win the Fields Medal.

MTD, Sr.

[Altor]

1. Don't we all know by now not to trust the clocks that are "painted" on the screen?
2. Depending on the programming, the clock could be showing 20 when it's really anywhere from 20.9 to 20.0.