Need some help on a blocked shot

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by nmanzie

Okay, I am the Lead on a two man crew. (I know... 2-man)....

White is on a breakaway steal and goes for a two-handed layup. While in the air, Green comes from behind and slaps the ball (and only ball) forward and out of bounds. On the way down, green and white tangle and fall to the floor. Green caused the tangle by having more speed than white in this situation, but touched all ball first.

What do you have? I called nothing because the ball was hit first. The reason I ask is because when they fell to the ground, white split his lip. I am not saying the split constitutes a foul, but I need to make sure I am calling this correctly.

Thanks.

If green created so much contact after the blocked shot to cause them both to end up on the floor, I've likely got a foul on green and if that contact occurred before white returned to the floor, we are shooting 2. The split lip is irrelevant.

We must protect an airborne shooter all the way back to the floor. Green still had a responsibility to avoid the contact whether he blocked the shot or not.

[nmanzie]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

We must protect an airborne shooter all the way back to the floor. Green still had a responsibility to avoid the contact whether he blocked the shot or not.

So after yesterday, I think I might be in agreement to this. Contact after a blocked shot is one thing, but even though a clean block, it was still a disaster for the shooter.

I'd still like to see other opinions from all.

[jeremy341a]

I protect the shooter all the way to the floor. They have to let them land even no matter if they blocked the shot or not.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by nmanzie

So after yesterday, I think I might be in agreement to this. Contact after a blocked shot is one thing, but even though a clean block, it was still a disaster for the shooter.

I'd still like to see other opinions from all.

Not all contact is illegal. It might be incidental. When someone blocks their shot, often that contact with the ball is going to make someone go off balance. If you want to call a foul you have the right to, but I do not consider all contact in these situations to be illegal. And I hope you are not making a decision just because a player might have gotten hurt. It is either a foul because it is a foul, not the end result. Legal plays can get players hurt. Basketball is a contact sport and we will have contact on blocked shot attempts, even if the block was basically clean.

Peace

[nmanzie]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not all contact is illegal. It might be incidental. When someone blocks their shot, often that contact with the ball is going to make someone go off balance. If you want to call a foul you have the right to, but I do not consider all contact in these situations to be illegal. And I hope you are not making a decision just because a player might have gotten hurt. It is either a foul because it is a foul, not the end result. Legal plays can get players hurt. Basketball is a contact sport and we will have contact on blocked shot attempts, even if the block was basically clean.

Peace

I'm not basing it because someone got hurt. I've been doing this too long to know that people will get hurt. But I am asking because I want to get it right. The player getting hurt just perked the question. This is teetering between losing balance and tangling (which is the way I called it) and a foul where it was green who created the contact to throw them both to the floor.

I appreciate everyone's input and would love to hear more. Thanks....

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by nmanzie

I'm not basing it because someone got hurt. I've been doing this too long to know that people will get hurt. But I am asking because I want to get it right. The player getting hurt just perked the question. This is teetering between losing balance and tangling (which is the way I called it) and a foul where it was green who created the contact to throw them both to the floor.

I appreciate everyone's input and would love to hear more. Thanks....

Me thinks that many of the responses you get are going to depend upon the picture the reader builds from the words. It seems to me (not a ref) that the details on the contact are going to matter a lot here on how they tangled. If the blocker was going up and over such that there was no way to block the shot without subsequently wiping out the shooter, I think that is pretty easily a foul. If there is minor contact from two players who fall because they are running at speed that seems to me not a foul. And there is a whole lot of grey in between those.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Me thinks that many of the responses you get are going to depend upon the picture the reader builds from the words. It seems to me (not a ref) that the details on the contact are going to matter a lot here on how they tangled. If the blocker was going up and over such that there was no way to block the shot without subsequently wiping out the shooter, I think that is pretty easily a foul. If there is minor contact from two players who fall because they are running at speed that seems to me not a foul. And there is a whole lot of grey in between those.

This.

And if the contact was after the shooter landed, I'm less likely to call it.
If the contact was after the shooter landed and after the ball was OOB, then it's ignored.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Me thinks that many of the responses you get are going to depend upon the picture the reader builds from the words. It seems to me (not a ref) that the details on the contact are going to matter a lot here on how they tangled. If the blocker was going up and over such that there was no way to block the shot without subsequently wiping out the shooter, I think that is pretty easily a foul. If there is minor contact from two players who fall because they are running at speed that seems to me not a foul. And there is a whole lot of grey in between those.

Agreed.

I'm in the camp that is more likely to pass on a foul that involves a clean block up top with some contact below but this is a HTBT situation.

I will say though that the fact the play from the defender "from behind" makes it more likely that I have a foul on this play.

But again tough to say with out seeing the specific play in question.

ETA- And as others have suggested, the level of play is also a significant factor here. With bigger and more athletic players you are going to see, and assigners and coaches expect, more contact to be deemed marginal or incidental.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by nmanzie

I'm not basing it because someone got hurt. I've been doing this too long to know that people will get hurt. But I am asking because I want to get it right. The player getting hurt just perked the question. This is teetering between losing balance and tangling (which is the way I called it) and a foul where it was green who created the contact to throw them both to the floor.

I appreciate everyone's input and would love to hear more. Thanks....

Honestly this is a HTBT situations. I probably would make a call if I feel the action afterwards was not related to the initial block. But if it was apart of the block, then I likely call nothing. Players fall hard when they are blocked sometimes and there does not need to be body contact of any significance to have that happen. You saw the play, so you can best tell us what you thought why this all took place.

Peace