A question for the Fashion Police.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I am sure that we have all seen some leg sleeves with pads in the knee area.

This afternoon in my boys' FR game a player for the Visitor's (who were wearing blue shirts and shorts with gold trim) wore good old fashion knee pads. The knee pads were white. No other player on the Visitor's wore knee pads or leg sleeves.

I am old school and believe that real knee pads are not sleeves, in fact, when the knee sleeves were added to the rules my opinion was that if they had knee pads incorporated into the sleeve that they were then knee pads and not knee sleeves.

Which begs the question, if the Visitor's had two other players wearing knee pads: one player wearing blue knee pads and a one player wearing gold knee pads. Do we have anything? I believe we have nothing.

MTD, Sr.

[Scratch85]

Those are knee braces.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

Those are knee braces.

I did not say knee braces. I said knee pads.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. I wear an unloader knee brace when officiating basketball and umpiring the bases in baseball and fast pitch softball.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I did not say knee braces. I said knee pads.

MTD, Sr.

I know you said pads instead of braces! That is why I said I thought we agreed.

We have guards, casts, braces, sleeves, tights, compression shorts, jewelery, undershirts, wristbands and headwear. We ain't got no pads. I am placing those "pads" into the brace category (3-5-2) and they sound legal.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

I know you said pads instead of braces! That is why I said I thought we agreed.

We have guards, casts, braces, sleeves, tights, compression shorts, jewelery, undershirts, wristbands and headwear. We ain't got no pads. I am placing those "pads" into the brace category (3-5-2) and they sound legal.

Pads are not braces and they are not sleeves. Therefore you cannot compare them to braces.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

I am placing those "pads" into the brace category ...

And, according to the new rules, you would be wrong:

2014-15 NFHS BASKETBALL RULES CHANGES

3-5-3 Art. 3: Arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves and tights are permissible:
a. Anything worn on the arm and/or leg is a sleeve, except a knee brace, and shall meet the color restrictions.
b. The sleeves/tights shall be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the uniform and the same color sleeves/tights shall be worn by teammates.
c. All sleeves/tights shall be the same solid color.
d. Meet the logo requirements in 3-6.
Note: In general, a brace is defined as anything that contains hinges and/or straps or an opening over the knee cap.

[Scratch85]

They are pads and there are no rules governing them so we still agree.

I have never worn a pad and think that anyone who does is suspect. Suspect of what, I'm not sure. But definitely not trustworhty of the intricate workings of life's decisions. Likely one who participates in tomfoolery and shenanigans. I won't be part of it and this is my final post in this thread.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am old ... and believe that real knee pads are not sleeves ... Which begs the question, if the Visitor's had two other players wearing knee pads: one player wearing blue knee pads and a one player wearing gold knee pads. Do we have anything? I believe we have nothing.

And until I hear otherwise, from the NFHS, IAABO, my local board and/or interpreter, or my state high school sports covering body, I believe that you have something.

2014-15 NFHS BASKETBALL RULES CHANGES

3-5-3 Art. 3: Arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves and tights are permissible:
a. Anything worn on the arm and/or leg is a sleeve, except a knee brace, and shall meet the color restrictions.
b. The sleeves/tights shall be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the uniform and the same color sleeves/tights shall be worn by teammates.
c. All sleeves/tights shall be the same solid color.

Note: For what it's worth, the assigner for my Catholic middle school games, who normally wants all Fashion Police issues to be enforced, has decided that knee pads will not fall under the color restrictions that other leg sleeves fall under.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And until I hear otherwise, from the NFHS, IAABO, my local board and/or interpreter, or my state high school sports covering body, I believe that you have something.

2014-15 NFHS BASKETBALL RULES CHANGES

3-5-3 Art. 3: Arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves and tights are permissible:
a. Anything worn on the arm and/or leg is a sleeve, except a knee brace, and shall meet the color restrictions.
b. The sleeves/tights shall be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the uniform and the same color sleeves/tights shall be worn by teammates.
c. All sleeves/tights shall be the same solid color.

Note: For what it's worth, the assigner for my Catholic middle school games, who normally wants all Fashion Police issues to be enforced, has decided that knee pads will not fall under the color restrictions that other leg sleeves fall under.

Billy:

I did not say I was old (even though my sons tell me that I am), I said I was old school, LOL!

MTD, Sr.

P.S. You didn't think this bald old geezer was going to catch that did you. LOL!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Scratch85

They are pads and there are no rules governing them so we still agree.

There are only two things worn on the legs....braces and sleeves. If the the item has straps, hinges, bars, etc., it is a brace. ANYTHING else is a sleeve. The presence of pads doesn't change that. They are subject to the color restrictions.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

3-5-3 Art. 3: Arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves and tights are permissible:
a. Anything worn on the arm and/or leg is a sleeve, except a knee brace, and shall meet the color restrictions.
b. The sleeves/tights shall be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the uniform and the same color sleeves/tights shall be worn by teammates.
c. All sleeves/tights shall be the same solid color.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

There are only two things worn on the legs....braces and sleeves. If the the item has straps, hinges, bars, etc., it is a brace. ANYTHING else is a sleeve. The presence of pads doesn't change that. They are subject to the color restrictions.

Camron:

I see your point, but knee pads (and elbow pads) go back to the early days of basketball. I am sure that at this point BillyMac can find pictures of some early basketball players wearing knee pads to post in this thread.

It has been years until today that I have seen a player wearing what are just knee pads. I just don't think that Rules Committees considered knee pads from a historical stand point (and why am I not surprised that the Rules Committees every do their due diligence with regard to existing rules interpretations that would still apply today, but I digress).

MTD, Sr.

[JetMetFan]

Just as an FYI...

The following is from the NCAAW Supplemental Apparel Guide:

Sleeves (Rule 1-26.9)
Knee pads (i.e., volleyball-type pads) are considered knee sleeves for the purpose of the rule.

Meaning...
*They must be a solid color
*They may be black, white, beige or the color of the game pants, and
*Teammates must all wear the same color

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

It has been years until today that I have seen a player wearing what are just knee pads.

Last year in a VG game I had a player with the old fashion knee pads. She was a guard.

Late in the first quarter she was guarding her opponent and lunged for the ball as her opponent was dribbling just crossing the division line - and she missed the ball. She fell towards the backcourt and went down on both knees, quickly pivoted, and ran back to cover her opponent.

I thought WOW, a player actually wearing a piece of equipment to prevent injury AND she knew how to use them. Novel.

Now, back to the discussion on tights and sleeves.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

There are only two things worn on the legs....braces and sleeves. If the the item has straps, hinges, bars, etc., it is a brace. ANYTHING else is a sleeve. The presence of pads doesn't change that. They are subject to the color restrictions.

I concur with Camron.
Per the following rule, if it's not a brace, then it is by rule a sleeve and subject to those requirements.

a. Anything worn on the arm and/or leg is a sleeve, except a knee brace, and shall meet the color restrictions.

[OKREF]

Rule change this year. Anything worn on the arm or leg is a sleeve.