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-   -   Illegal Undershirts Prior to Start of Game (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/98752-illegal-undershirts-prior-start-game.html)

SCRef1983 Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:54am
Just found the rule. Got arm sleeves and under shirts confused. :rolleyes:

Adam Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 945407)
Thx Bryan,

If they can correct it within a minute that's fine. rule says it is supposed to be a T to delay game for more than a minute. so they can delay game by less than a minute. that should be enough time to fix it so your likely not going to have to replace starters etc. However, if they can't fix it in a minute i don't have any problem telling them to replace them. i won't wait minutes for this one.

as i said, its not a big deal--just another call. so the starters check in at the first dead ball... the referee didn't cause the problem. if it was a new rule or something obscure id look at it differently. But this is 5th grade stuff--coaching 101…having 3 players, who i assume are on a varsity team, come out with black shirts under white uniforms falls into the major coaching/player screwup category. there may be things id delay longer than a minute for….this isn't one of them.
i do agree with Rich that some times putting oil on the wheel is better…i just don't see this situation as needing it. thx
It normally takes them 30 seconds to go into the hallway and come back. It's like magic. They don't have to go to the locker room. That still gives him a few seconds to throw his illegal undershirt to his girlfriend.

rockyroad Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 945346)
I'm sure the opposing coach who knows the rule wouldn't consider your suspending of a clear rule a "big deal", especially if you were doing it solely for personal convenience, not wanting to "cause a problem". :rolleyes:
What "clear rule" is being suspended??

There is nothing in the rule book that says we can't send the kid to change and take an extra 30 seconds before we toss the ball.

BigCat Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 945419)
It normally takes them 30 seconds to go into the hallway and come back. It's like magic. They don't have to go to the locker room. That still gives him a few seconds to throw his illegal undershirt to his girlfriend.
i agree it really shouldn't ever be an issue. but a team goofy enough to have 3 starters with black undershirts may send them all the way to the locker room, instead of telling them to take them off in the hall…..

egj13 Wed Dec 03, 2014 01:53pm
Sure enough if I didn't read this yesterday and then have it happen last night. All of the starters were ok...but about 5 minutes into the 1st Q, A6 comes into the game with a green jersey and black t-shirt. I step in and ask the young man to go take it off...HC says he looked it up before the game and it can be black, white or jersey color...one partner says he isn't sure, R says just leave it alone. There I was on my own little island...SMH

BillyMac Wed Dec 03, 2014 06:23pm
Just The Facts, Ma'am ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRef1983 (Post 945416)
Got arm sleeves and under shirts confused.
Stupid "Fashion Police" rules. Just for kicks, try figuring out the rule differences for tights, leg sleeves, and compression shorts. Now try to figure out the difference between long tights, and "regular" length compression shorts. Got a headache yet?

RedKillian Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:49am
Seriously?
 
I'm surprised so many would let them go and change. The coach confirmed his players were legally equipped. Make him pay for his mistake, he won't make it again. Would you delay the game so a sub could go and change? Probably not, so why the starters?

Rich Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedKillian (Post 945532)
I'm surprised so many would let them go and change. The coach confirmed his players were legally equipped. Make him pay for his mistake, he won't make it again. Would you delay the game so a sub could go and change? Probably not, so why the starters?
Make him pay? Eh, I simply don't think that way. I'm there to manage a game.

Shrug.

RedKillian Thu Dec 04, 2014 01:07am
Rich, how would you manage the sub with an illegal t-shirt? 4 minutes into the game, first sub for the team? Not at the end of the game and someone who never gets to play.

Rich Thu Dec 04, 2014 01:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedKillian (Post 945535)
Rich, how would you manage the sub with an illegal t-shirt? 4 minutes into the game, first sub for the team? Not at the end of the game and someone who never gets to play.
Different scenario -- I send him into the hall to change it. If there's a stoppage and it doesn't delay the game (for example, a timeout), I'll wait. If not, he can come in on the next dead ball.

Making the team change its STARTERS would delay the game more than sending the kids into the hall to remove the t-shirts.

bainsey Thu Dec 04, 2014 01:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 945536)
Making the team change its STARTERS would delay the game more than sending the kids into the hall to remove the t-shirts.
I'm not so sure. Either way, you have to send three players into the locker room/hallway, so instead of waiting for them, why not expedite things by getting three players checked in and the game started? What's more, they'll be less likely to do it again, if you're not going to wait for them.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Dec 04, 2014 02:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG_Ref (Post 945309)
Or ...

3-2-2
ART. 2

After the 10-minute time limit specified in Article 1, a team is charged with a maximum of one technical foul regardless of how many infractions of the following are committed (see 10-1-2 Penalty):

a. Changing a designated starter, unless necessitated by illness, injury, illegal equipment or apparel, etc., or to attempt a technical-foul free throw.

I am going by the NFHS Rules. I am going to inform the HC that he needs to replace three of his starters and then have the Timer start a 20 second count down for a substitute with the warning buzzer after 5 seconds.

MTD, Sr.

Freddy Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 945349)
I'm not suspending anything. The rule *allows* a change in starter for an illegal shirt -- it does NOT forbid me from giving 30 seconds to a minute for a player to change the shirt.

It would take longer to explain the rule to the coach and require new starters and get them properly marked in the book for me to let the kid(s) change out of the illegal shirts.

Sometimes it's better for you and for the game to put a little oil on that wheel.
I'm all for tactful application of petroleum product to expedite the process and get on to all the non-fashion police aspects of the game.
I'm also aware that there are two specific coaches in our area, each adept at the rules, who would make this an issue if we granted the leeway I'd probably otherwise give with other coaches who could care less.
Therefore I'd hesitate to make a blanket policy to cover my setting aside a rule. Sometimes? Perhaps. Always? Um, no.
And no, I don't tend to be an O.O.O. :) Just hate it for the phone to ring and it being my assigner on the other end. Cuz his first question is gonna be, "Can I support your decision by rule?"
Then again, not such a big deal, cuz we'll probably catch it during warmups anyway.

BillyMac Thu Dec 04, 2014 04:46pm
Go By The Book, And He'll Back You 100% ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 945580)
Just hate it for the phone to ring and it being my assigner on the other end. Cuz his first question is gonna be, "Can I support your decision by rule?"
Do we have the same assigner?

bainsey Thu Dec 04, 2014 07:55pm
And, sure enough, guess what happened today?

Blue team had one starter wear a black t-shirt. Told to the coach to put in another starter while he went to the locker room to change. Made the change in the book, no penalty.

This forum follows you, I swear!


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