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-   -   Florida State/Nebraska blarge (Video) (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/98751-florida-state-nebraska-blarge-video.html)

Remington Wed Dec 03, 2014 02:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 945475)
My supervisor has instructed his staff that the L has the primary call on a secondary defender (which FSU #15 is). If there is a double-whistle between the L & C or L & T on a block-charge call in the paint, the outside official is supposed to "hold" and is NOT to give a preliminary signal. Prior to my games, this possible play situation is repeated over & over during the pre-game discussion.

The ball is rebounded by Neb #2 and drives down the lane on the C side of the centerline. In my conference, this is the L's primary call.

This is what we have been instructed in our leagues as well and I can tell you from camp with Big 10 officials and supervisors, this is the leads call (at least first crack).

constable Wed Dec 03, 2014 06:26pm

That's a miss by the C.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Dec 03, 2014 06:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 945479)
And I'd agree with your supervisor. Yet another example of a rotating defender coming form the L's primary to the C's side with the C jumping on the call and getting it wrong.


I do not necessarily have a problem with the L getting this call, the way this play played out, the C had a great view of the play should have been able to pick up the new defender with no problems. As I stated earlier, that in this play the C should have had this play from the beginning.

Going off on a tangent as I am wont to do, I really do not believe that the Defender that took the charge can be classified as a Secondary Defender in the play because the Offensive Player had been passed his original Defender so as to be classifed as an Offensive Player who was not being defended and therefore a new Defensive Player started to guard him.

MTD, Sr.

bob jenkins Thu Dec 04, 2014 09:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 945509)
Going off on a tangent as I am wont to do, I really do not believe that the Defender that took the charge can be classified as a Secondary Defender in the play because the Offensive Player had been passed his original Defender so as to be classifed as an Offensive Player who was not being defended and therefore a new Defensive Player started to guard him.

That's pretty much the definition of Secondary Defender (and even where it is not, the video is an example of one)

Raymond Thu Dec 04, 2014 09:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 945509)
... I really do not believe that the Defender that took the charge can be classified as a Secondary Defender in the play because the Offensive Player had been passed his original Defender so as to be classifed as an Offensive Player who was not being defended and therefore a new Defensive Player started to guard him.

MTD, Sr.

Then you're failing to grasp the definition of secondary defender as put forth my NCAA-Men's basketball.

johnny d Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 945567)
Then you're failing to grasp the definition of secondary defender as put forth my NCAA-Men's basketball.


Hypothetical question. Assume this contact occurred in the RA, would you call a block because the secondary defender cannot establish initial LGP in the RA, or is the RA not in effect since the player who got the offensive rebound went immediately to the basket, thus eliminating the secondary defender rule?

bob jenkins Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 945573)
Hypothetical question. Assume this contact occurred in the RA, would you call a block because the secondary defender cannot establish initial LGP in the RA, or is the RA not in effect since the player who got the offensive rebound went immediately to the basket, thus eliminating the secondary defender rule?

NCAAW: Because the drive started outside the LDB, contact inside the RA cannot be a charge (absent a leading knee, etc.)

Raymond Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 945573)
Hypothetical question. Assume this contact occurred in the RA, would you call a block because the secondary defender cannot establish initial LGP in the RA, or is the RA not in effect since the player who got the offensive rebound went immediately to the basket, thus eliminating the secondary defender rule?

Though he made an immediate move, he did have a primary defender on him when he started his move.

I always took the rebounding exception to mean that the first defender encountered was a defender in the RA.

Raymond Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 945509)
I do not necessarily have a problem with the L getting this call, the way this play played out, the C had a great view of the play should have been able to pick up the new defender with no problems. As I stated earlier, that in this play the C should have had this play from the beginning....
MTD, Sr.

Then he needs to quit bailing on plays as a ball handler is moving towards the basket.

Camron Rust Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 945564)
That's pretty much the definition of Secondary Defender (and even where it is not, the video is an example of one)

At some point, however, a secondary defender would become the primary defender.

johnny d Thu Dec 04, 2014 04:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 945587)
Though he made an immediate move, he did have a primary defender on him when he started his move.

I already took the rebounding exception to mean that the first defender encountered was a defender in the RA.

I would consider this a secondary defender as well, but I am not sure how I would rule an RA play in this case. The rebounding exception doesn't say anything about how many defenders encountered, it just says there are no secondary defenders when the rebounder makes an immediate move to the basket.

johnny d Thu Dec 04, 2014 04:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 945576)
NCAAW: Because the drive started outside the LDB, contact inside the RA cannot be a charge (absent a leading knee, etc.)


Interesting that NCAA-W does not have the immediate move by the rebounder exception. Also, NCAA-M does not have LDB

johnny d Thu Dec 04, 2014 04:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 945604)
At some point, however, a secondary defender would become the primary defender.

We have gone over this before. It really doesn't matter when this switch from secondary to primary occurs. It only matters for establishing initial LGP. Further, once the player with the ball stops continuous movement towards the basket and initiates illegal contact with the secondary defender in the RA, this is a player control foul. Essentially, once the offensive player stops movement towards the basket, the secondary defender becomes the primary defender.

rockyroad Thu Dec 04, 2014 04:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 945631)
I would consider this a secondary defender as well, but I am not sure how I would rule an RA play in this case. The rebounding exception doesn't say anything about how many defenders encountered, it just says there are no secondary defenders when the rebounder makes an immediate move to the basket.

Would the pump fake and then dribble take away the "immediate move to the basket" part of the NCAA-M interp on this play? Seems like the immediate move would have been him going up for the intial shot, but by pump faking and dribbling away from that defender...??


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