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BigCat Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 944416)
The school didn't say it in the meeting. The schools still maintain plausible deniability. Frankly, if one must do business with people like this to stay in business, it's probably not worth the headache. You can't trust them.

I'm assuming the schools voted on and hired the commissioner. When he speaks and when he acts he is them. --Which is why you don't want to hire knuckleheads to represent you. Nothing is ever as clear/cut and dry in these situations.

What I imagine the schools would say is "our commissioner, he's a little round ( as in not sharp). We sent him there to say we needed better officials for our games..don't send us officials who aren't up to job...." Commissioner may say I meant don't send any official including those women because they are not up to job. Not because of being a woman...

May come down to whether the women in the association are competent--and if somebody decides to take it on.

I guess what I would like to think is that if a school or group of schools said "don't send BigCat, because we just don't want cats,"- someone in my association, my association as a group, would stand up for me. try to help me. One for all all for one sort of deal....
I've never been a fan of "every man for himself."

JRutledge Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:12am

That is the problem. These kinds of relationships are the ultimate problem. So glad we do not have them here. But we seem to be the exception.

Peace

Adam Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 944418)
I'm assuming the schools voted on and hired the commissioner.

You may be right. We don't have a commissioner here, but I've worked in an area that did before. The term is going to be defined differently, and the occupant selected differently, around the country.

That said, I think the best response would be to simply write them a letter:

Dear sirs,
We have received your request that we only send male officials to your boys basketball contests. After discussing it with our attorneys, we have come to the conclusion that it is simply not a lawful request so we must respectfully decline your request.

Sincerely,

Raymond Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:31pm

schools hire an association. Associations determine how the commissioner's slot is filled. The Commissioners work for the association and negotiate contracts on behalf of the associations.

BigCat Sat Nov 22, 2014 01:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 944422)
You may be right. We don't have a commissioner here, but I've worked in an area that did before. The term is going to be defined differently, and the occupant selected differently, around the country.

That said, I think the best response would be to simply write them a letter:

Dear sirs,
We have received your request that we only send male officials to your boys basketball contests. After discussing it with our attorneys, we have come to the conclusion that it is simply not a lawful request so we must respectfully decline your request.

Sincerely,

Not bad letter Adam...
I think it would be best for the association to talk to lawyer before acting. Better to get some guidance now than have to clean up huge mess later. Example: school person who thought it was ok to say "no women" through "back channel." Bad idea...big mess....

BillyMac Sat Nov 22, 2014 01:50pm

Unfairly Limit Officiating Assignments ...
 
I'm having some trouble following the legal aspects of this discussion, but, for what it's worth (maybe nothing, strike that, probably nothing), here's part of our local Code Of Ethics And Conduct For Board Members:

Board members shall not be party to actions designed to unfairly limit or restrain access to officiating, officiating assignments or association membership. This includes selection for positions of leadership based upon economic factors, race, creed, color, age, sex, physical disability, country of national origin.

Here in Connecticut, our local IAABO boards hire commissioners who are responsible for assigning regular season games, and said commissioners are also local board members.

To inject some Devil's' advocate silliness into this thread, we already have one deaf official (who is quite good). What happens when a legally blind person, or a person in a wheelchair, wants to become an official? Are there limits? Can anyone (short of not passing a criminal background check) be denied? What if they can't pass the written rule test, or the floor exam, due to a physical disability? Will the civil liberty lawyers get them out of "non-officiating jail"? I'm a retired middle school teacher, and we had to adjust exams for various physical, and mental, disabilities for many students. Will we have to give our written rules exam in a language other than English, like they do for our State Department of Motor Vehicles drivers license exam? Braille? Another random thought: After perusing the "list", I find it interesting that sexual orientation is not included in our local Code above. Is anything else missing? What if a faith-based school requests that no gay officials be assigned there? Again, these are random thoughts. Curiosity killed the cat, and, maybe, can kill BillyMac.

Man, this is a complicated topic, that can make your head spin, whether you're a conservative, or a progressive.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.6080...8&pid=15.1&P=0

BigCat Sat Nov 22, 2014 02:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 944425)
I'm having some trouble following the legal aspects of this discussion, but, for what it's worth (maybe nothing, strike that, probably nothing), here's part of our local Code Of Ethics And Conduct For Board Members:

Board members shall not be party to actions designed to unfairly limit or restrain access to officiating, officiating assignments or association membership. This includes selection for positions of leadership based upon economic factors, race, creed, color, age, sex, physical disability, country of national origin.

Here in Connecticut, our local IAABO boards hire commissioners who are responsible for assigning regular season games, and said commissioners are also a local board members.

To inject some Devil's' advocate silliness into this thread, we already have one deaf official (who is quite good). What happens when a legally blind person, or a person in a wheelchair, wants to become an official? Are there limits? Can anyone (short of not passing a criminal background check) be denied? What if they can't pass the written rule test, or the floor exam, due to a physical disability? Will the civil liberty lawyers get them out of "non-officiating jail"? I'm a retired middle school teacher, and we had to adjust exams for various physical, and mental, disabilities for many students. Will we have to give our written rules exam in a language other than English, like they do for our State Department of Motor Vehicles drivers license exam? Braille? Another random thought: After perusing the "list", I find it interesting that sexual orientation is not included in our local Code above. Is anything else missing? What if a faith-based school requests that no gay officials be assigned there? Again, these are random thoughts. Curiosity killed the cat, and, maybe, can kill BillyMac.

Man, this is a complicated topic, that can make your head spin, whether you're a conservative, or a progressive.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.6080...8&pid=15.1&P=0

Please don't let curiosity kill the cat. Specifically me...:)It can be extremely complicated. There's a lot to it. But employers can turn people down for a lot of reasons or no reasons at all. Billy your too fat, too slow, you don't know rules.

What raises the red flags are the big ones...race, sex etc. Billy, you are fired because you are African American or because you are a woman. And even if one of those IS really the reason you are being fired, employers will never say it to you or admit it. A person can sue the employer and claim they were fired for race but if employer can point to anything else, you don't know rules, too slow, you name it...they win.

BillyMac Sat Nov 22, 2014 05:47pm

These Facts Are Not In My Profile ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 944426)
Billy your too fat, too slow, you don't know rules.

Have we met? We know each other from where? I've never been to the Land of Lincoln, and yet, you seem to know me quite well.

BigCat Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 944427)
Have we met? We know each other from where? I've never been to the Land of Lincoln, and yet, you seem to know me quite well.

:) You are known all across the land...

Adam Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 944458)
:) You are known all across the land...

Please don't feed the BillyMac.

BillyMac Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:44am

Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 944460)
Please don't feed the BillyMac.

Damn right. Otherwise he'll throw poop at you.

just another ref Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 944480)
Damn right. Otherwise he'll throw poop at you.

too late

Moosie74 Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:18am

If this association doesn't want females officiating boys games, what do they do with females coaching boys teams?

I can think of a few big schools with women who are the head coach of a boys varsity/JV or middle school teams. One school has a woman coaching each of those levels.

One association I work with has 240 +/- officials, 10 are female, 6 only work subvarsity. Odds say you're getting a male, probably 2-3 most nights regardless of the gender of the participants.

Raymond Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moosie74 (Post 944564)
If this association doesn't want females officiating boys games, what do they do with females coaching boys teams?
...

It is not the association that doesn't want females working BV, it's the conference of teams.

The association has a commissioner who handles all contract negotiations with schools and conferences.

AremRed Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moosie74 (Post 944564)
If this association doesn't want females officiating boys games, what do they do with females coaching boys teams?

I can think of a few big schools with women who are the head coach of a boys varsity/JV or middle school teams. One school has a woman coaching each of those levels.

One association I work with has 240 +/- officials, 10 are female, 6 only work subvarsity. Odds say you're getting a male, probably 2-3 most nights regardless of the gender of the participants.

Guess your area is more progressive than mine, I've never seen a woman coaching a Freshman/JV boys team, much less the Varsity.


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