Freedom of Movement 10-6-12

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm still waiting on you to point me to where the NFHS has said they want 2 separate touches committed 30/40/50' and 10/15/20 seconds apart to be considered a foul. I'm sure it's somewhere near their "team control is not really team control" edict.

Originally Posted by OKREF

Yes, the way the rule is written, that is a foul. Not saying I agree with the logic.

If the opportunity presents itself, you mind bringing that play to your local and/or state interpreter?

[Raymond]

Previous mention by NFHS of multiple touching by defender:

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...tml#post550274


2001-2002 Interps Part 2.
SITUATION 17: Al is slowly dribbling the ball up the court. Bl is lightly “tagging” Al, but is not impeding Al’s forward motion. The official warns Bl to “keep hands off.” RULING: This is a foul. There is no warning. (10-6-1)

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Yes, the way the rule is written, that is a foul. Not saying I agree with the logic.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If the opportunity presents itself, you mind bringing that play to your local and/or state interpreter?

Had a meeting last night. I asked our area coordinator about this discussion. His take was....

By the literal wording of the rule, it would be a foul. He then said there was no way he was calling a foul for the second touch that happened in the frontcourt, 10 seconds after the first touch in the backcourt.

He also said that if you have a touch and then the ball handler and the defensive player get outside the 6 FT legal guarding requirements and then re-engage and there is a second touch, he didn't think he would call a foul for that second touch. Unless it affected RSBQ.

[JRutledge]

I think to keep trying to make this point that the literal wording of the rule is silly. Either that was the intent of the rule or it was not.

I will give some of you credit, at least you are asking people you work for instead of just taking some interpretation from the NCAA and considering it law.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Had a meeting last night. I asked our area coordinator about this discussion. His take was....

By the literal wording of the rule, it would be a foul. He then said there was no way he was calling a foul for the second touch that happened in the frontcourt, 10 seconds after the first touch in the backcourt.

He also said that if you have a touch and then the ball handler and the defensive player get outside the 6 FT legal guarding requirements and then re-engage and there is a second touch, he didn't think he would call a foul for that second touch. Unless it affected RSBQ.

Appreciate it.

[just another ref]

We had a little one day clinic/camp deal today and the clinician/rules guy said he had conferred with our head state guy on this issue and that our interpretation is to be multiple touches while the defender is actively engaged with the ballhandler.


Touch......back way off........step up and touch again= nothing automatic

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

We had a little one day clinic/camp deal today and the clinician/rules guy said he had conferred with our head state guy on this issue and that our interpretation is to be multiple touches while the defender is actively engaged with the ballhandler.


Touch......back way off........step up and touch again= nothing automatic

Even though I have debated this point on the other side from the perspective of what the rules actually say, I'm hoping that is the way it eventually works out.

Something like...two touches while the defender continuously stays within a closely guarded distance.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Even though I have debated this point on the other side from the perspective if what the rules actually say, I'm hoping that is the way it eventually works out.

Something like...two touches while the defender continuously stays with a closely distance.

I asked the question "Is time a factor?" He said that yes it was but 15 seconds was the longest it could be anyway, 10 in the backcourt 5 closely guarded. I didn't mention the fact that one could lose his LGP and still be close enough to touch because I think I got the point he was making and, like you, I think it is reasonable.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I asked the question "Is time a factor?" He said that yes it was but 15 seconds was the longest it could be anyway, 10 in the backcourt 5 closely guarded. I didn't mention the fact that one could lose his LGP and still be close enough to touch because I think I got the point he was making and, like you, I think it is reasonable.

PLus, it could be 10 in the back court and (almost) 10 in the front court if the player dribbles across for 5 seconds and then holds the ball for 5 seconds.

Even in the just FC it coul be (almost) 15 for hold-dribble-hold

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Even though I have debated this point on the other side from the perspective of what the rules actually say, I'm hoping that is the way it eventually works out.

Something like...two touches while the defender continuously stays within a closely guarded distance.

I agree Cam. Keeping it within the scope of the same defensive encounter makes the most sense to me - hope it settles out that way. Maybe this question needs to get booted to our SRI so we can get a clear interpretation.