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-   -   Slight lapse of focus.... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/98172-slight-lapse-focus.html)

just another ref Thu Jul 10, 2014 05:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 937550)
Rhetorical questions, or quizzing our newbies?

I know you know the answer to this.


Actually, I see two different ways to look at it. What are you saying?

Raymond Thu Jul 10, 2014 05:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 937593)
Actually, I see two different ways to look at it. What are you saying?

A try is only at one's own basket.

just another ref Thu Jul 10, 2014 06:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 937594)
A try is only at one's own basket.

5.2.1 says that when the officials allow the teams to go in the wrong direction all points scored count as if they had gone in the right direction. When the officials allowed the wrong team to complete the throw-in and didn't blow it dead, as far as I'm concerned, they "allowed the teams to go the wrong way."

Raymond Thu Jul 10, 2014 08:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 937595)
5.2.1 says that when the officials allow the teams to go in the wrong direction all points scored count as if they had gone in the right direction. When the officials allowed the wrong team to complete the throw-in and didn't blow it dead, as far as I'm concerned, they "allowed the teams to go the wrong way."

That applies if the teams started in the wrong direction, not when get disoriented in the middle of action. Under your theory then Blue should been credited with the 2 points White's basket.

AremRed Thu Jul 10, 2014 08:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 937595)
5.2.1 says that when the officials allow the teams to go in the wrong direction all points scored count as if they had gone in the right direction. When the officials allowed the wrong team to complete the throw-in and didn't blow it dead, as far as I'm concerned, they "allowed the teams to go the wrong way."

That's only for starting the wrong direction at the beginning of a half, not the play in the OP.

just another ref Thu Jul 10, 2014 08:45pm

The example given is at the beginning of the game. Why would that not apply if it happened at some other point? What do you do if you discover in the midst of the proceedings that the teams are going the wrong way and you don't know when they started?

AremRed Thu Jul 10, 2014 08:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 937601)
The example given is at the beginning of the game. Why would that not apply if it happened at some other point? What do you do if you discover in the midst of the proceedings that the teams are going the wrong way and you don't know when they started?

If I somehow have a brain aneurysm and allow the teams to start going the opposite way during the middle of a half, I doubt my brain would be functional enough to remember the example.

just another ref Thu Jul 10, 2014 09:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 937602)
If I somehow have a brain aneurysm and allow the teams to start going the opposite way during the middle of a half, I doubt my brain would be functional enough to remember the example.

So what does that mean? At the 4 minute mark of the first quarter you discover the teams are going the wrong way. Nobody knows when they started. This is actually not as uncommon as one might think when young kids are involved. What would you do?

bob jenkins Thu Jul 10, 2014 09:56pm

I can see a TO in the middle of a quarter, and as part of the ensuing throw-in, the players all start going the wrong direction. Here, I'd let it stand, and fix it when discovered.

I think it needs to be that the referees are also just thinking that everything is normal, and that it's after some break in the action.

Or, use 2-3 (or whatever it is) to decide.

Raymond Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 937603)
So what does that mean? At the 4 minute mark of the first quarter you discover the teams are going the wrong way. Nobody knows when they started. This is actually not as uncommon as one might think when young kids are involved. What would you do?

If nobody knows when they started going to the wrong way, then I'm assuming young kids are also officiating. The video in the OP is clearly a situation of an "all of a sudden" moment, not a prolonged stretch of action where everyone played normally.

just another ref Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 937614)
If nobody knows when they started going to the wrong way, then I'm assuming young kids are also officiating. The video in the OP is clearly a situation of an "all of a sudden" moment, not a prolonged stretch of action where everyone played normally.

4 seconds elapse in the OP with the wrong team inbounding the ball and dribbling into its own backcourt. This may not qualify as a "prolonged stretch of action" to you, but it's more than a sudden moment to me. Clearly none of the officials are aware of the problem and they don't appear to be young kids to me.

BillyMac Fri Jul 11, 2014 06:12am

Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 937595)
5.2.1 says ....

5.2.1 SITUATION E: During the pregame practice period, the visiting team
properly uses the east goal and the home team the west goal. The officials, by
mistake, allow the jumpers to face the wrong direction to start the game. A1 controls
the tap by tapping the ball back to A2. A2, realizing that he/she had warmed
up at the basket behind A1, dribbles to that basket and scores an uncontested
basket. RULING: Score the basket for Team A. The officials should stop the game
and emphasize to both teams the proper direction. The mistake is an official's
error by allowing A1 and B1 to face the wrong direction; not a correctable error.

5.2.1 SITUATION F: During the pregame practice period, the visiting team
properly uses the east goal and the home team the west goal. The officials, by
mistake, allow the jumpers to face the wrong direction to start the game. Several
baskets are scored before it is recognized that both teams are throwing the ball
into the opponent’s basket. RULING: All points scored count as if the teams had
gone the right direction and scored in their own basket. Once the mistake is recognized,
play shall continue with each team attempting to score in its own basket.
(4-5-4)

yooperbballref Fri Jul 11, 2014 07:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 937549)
If the player in white heaves it toward the wrong basket and the buzzer goes off while the ball is in the air does it count if it goes in?

No points given, ball is dead when horn goes off unless on a shot.

Raymond Fri Jul 11, 2014 08:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 937619)
4 seconds elapse in the OP with the wrong team inbounding the ball and dribbling into its own backcourt. This may not qualify as a "prolonged stretch of action" to you, but it's more than a sudden moment to me. Clearly none of the officials are aware of the problem and they don't appear to be young kids to me.

I could never fathom going the wrong direction after a free throw and letting it last more than 5 seconds. And if someone were to launch a shot a the wrong basket that goes in after the buzzer, I'm not compounding my complete ineptitude by scoring points.

And again I ask, so in the OP, you are going to the scorer's table and making sure they awarded 2 points to Blue for the basket they made into White's basket?

just another ref Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 937627)
I could never fathom going the wrong direction after a free throw and letting it last more than 5 seconds. And if someone were to launch a shot a the wrong basket that goes in after the buzzer, I'm not compounding my complete ineptitude by scoring points.

And again I ask, so in the OP, you are going to the scorer's table and making sure they awarded 2 points to Blue for the basket they made into White's basket?

In the OP, since the one basket is the extent of the damage, no, I think you credit it to white. However, had the action continued for any longer reaching the point where white also took a shot at the wrong basket, or had there been a turnover and blue again attacked the wrong basket, then I think it would fall under the "officials allowed the teams to go the wrong way" blanket, at which time the point would count for the team that shot them.


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