"Purple" or "Blue"
 

I came into work today wearing a purple short-sleeve knit shirt. Purple is also the color of two local schools, one public (Hampden, my town), one private (Bapst).

One of my colleagues saw me and exclaimed, "Hey! I see you're wearing your Bapst purple!" I feigned offense, critically stating that I only wear the supreme purple, Hampden purple.

(It's the same damn shade.)

After that banter, we talked about how officials will call purple teams "blue." We both agreed, "they're not blue!" I told her it's an old mechanic, and I will only say "blue" if my parter absolutely insists. (A lack a uniformity doesn't look good.)

A few years ago, during our annual pre-season conference, an instructor mentioned that usage of two-syllable colors is becoming more accepted, and several older officials reacted as if he said 2+2=5. Personally, I don't see the big deal about one syllable. I can see "gold" for yellow, and even "red" for maroon, but what's so hard about spitting out an extra syllable crisply, especially when we should be all about "getting it right?"

I will always use blue for purple, red for maroon and sometimes orange, gold for yellow. For me this is simpler for everybody to understand. It is also a carry over from football, as it is easier to call our blue or red, when dealing with a pile-up over a fumble. The players hear the call and start to stop fighting for the ball. As for on the basketball court, I have never seen anybody object to the shortened color calls we use. Just be sure to discuss it with your partner(s) and the table.

I personally don't give a crap. I do the single syllable because it's what's done, and this isn't an issue worthy of bucking the trend. If I have a partner that insists on "purple" or "yellow", I'm not going to cause any problems.

I've never heard a single player, at any level, complain about the practice. No one really gets that knotted up about it except officials, in my experience.

Most of the players would probably not like to be reminded that they are wearing purple anyway... :cool:

Purple is blue.

Here is what I heard at camp last weekend (granted this was a women's college level camp). "When you go to Tennessee are you going to call them gold or red - no, they are orange!" Use the word for the actual color.

At the HS level here we pretty much stick to one syllable colors.

And if I work Tennessee games, I'll be happy to yell out "Volunteer Orange"

Because if it was a men's college level camp, they would never say anything like this???:confused:

I say one syllable words because it is easier to understand with a whistle in your mouth and easier to understand when running or moving. And that is not going to change whether people like it or not. And since I hardly ever hear anyone be confused by saying "blue" for a color like purple (or the other colors that similarily match another two-syllable color), I do not see this changing in my game anytime soon.

Peace

It's a big (enough) deal to some people. I don't get why, but I get that it is.

If one of those "some people" is someone I work for, or want to work for, or has the ear of someone I want to work for, then I do it the way that person wants.

My high school's road uniforms were orange. We were always called red. I don't remember ever getting twisted up about this. Blue it is.

In My Little Corner Of Connecticut ...
 

... I say what my interpreter tells all 325 of us to say: "Blue".

(Been doing it this way for thirty-three years, so I guess that I'm one of those 2+2=5 guys.)

Orange is one syllable to me.

Yellow will always be gold and I'll never, ever say "purple."

Purple = blue
Teal = blue
Maroon, Orange = Red


I am old school I guess and will use the one syllable word.

If the game is at UT aren't they most likely wearing white as the home team ????

Only on the politically correct woman's side would somebody say that to a camper.....hope you weren't on that court more than once....������������

We are told to call the team's actual color. Meaning we don't say "red" if their color is maroon, nor do we say "blue" if their color is actually purple.

I don't know why we were told that, but I don't see the problem in calling a team by their actual color anyway. Heck, the other team is "white", so it's not like the scorekeeper is going to get them confused.

Saying the precise color has nothing to do with "getting it right".

Exactly. I'm just surprised someone actually takes this so far they actually say "maroon". I'm wondering if they also use "teal" or "aqua."

Maybe they should say "fuchsia" as well. After all we have to be accurate right? :rolleyes:

Peace

Yep.

"Hey, coach. Is that officially 'lime green?'

I'd have to start bringing my wife to all my games.

Too late. Jake Bell's tryout camp was last weekend:)

Try Yelling This After An Out Of Bounds ...
 

Light Goldenrod Yellow. (Note: It's a real color)

University of Connecticut (Road): American Flag Blue.

For those that want to be accurate on their color names, here is a page with several names for various shades and hues:

List of colors: A?F - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Coquelicot, Fulvous, Persimmon or Russet anyone?

The mantra of "getting it right" applies to getting plays/calls correct.

Is there anyone who can find a fundamental, factual flaw within this instruction?

No one I work for would ever even talk about something like this. I doubt they have ever even thought about it.

The flaw is that it appears someone is teach something that really has nothing to do with anything. Part of our job is to communicate so that wer are understood. If we say every color that it possibly could be, we will confuse people right or wrong. We only have two colors to announce or use. One is white the other is a darker color. I see no point in trying to be so specific when the reality is that most colors are not easily identified. And what do you do with someone that is color blind? There are people that cannot easily identify what specific color a jersey might be. I do understand that some want to be very specific, but this part of our communication does not need to be that specific or we do not explain every call. No one in my career has ever complained that I called them black, red or gold when they were a different color as far as I can remember. They usually figure out what color we are identifying and that is after all the only issue.

For one we do not go and report fouls and tell exactly what a player did, most just say a "push" or "hold" without much detail. I do not find it a necessity to do otherwise with a color we might say only for an out of bounds purpose or telling a scorer which team we actually called a foul on.

Peace

New to Me
 

POST-CAMP REPORT: Verbalized "orange" for the first time ever at a camp this weekend. It didn't hurt.

Any evaluator that says this to me mustn't have anything to say about my officiating. Also, I'd wonder why I dumped money on the camp for that kind of feedback.

Hey Freddo, you ever been to Mike Conlin's CABO camp?

I dont' knwo about flaw, but how far do we take it? What if they object to orange and want it to be "burnt orange?" Or want "maize" for "yellow." or "crimson" or "scarlett" or "cherry" for red?

Honestly, when I grew up, I only had the box of eight crayola crayons, and orange and purple were missing. Seriously.

Nope, nor can I find a compelling reason for it. Therefore, I'll continue to go with the norm around here.

I can't believe this subject has garnered three pages of conversation.

Those that have told us to call them "orange" instead of "red", or "purple" instead of "blue", are probably not going to care either way. But regardless of the possible repercussions, why not just call the team wearing orange "orange"?

Besides, in our pre-game meeting with each team's captain(s) we let them know what color they will be called. If they want to be called something else due to school pride regarding their colors... who cares? Just do it.

http://image.ssww.com/catimages/SWSA...d=365&cvt=jpeg

BTW, it looks like orange and purple are there now.

My job as an official is not predicated on what they like. And I stated clearly why earlier why I do not say two or three syllable words. I also said never had anyone care what we called them that deep. And if they cannot understand my reasoning, oh well, their life will go on.

Peace

Yep. Coming up again this weekend. Will PM you.

The Unwashed ...
 

I had the box of sixty-four crayons, with a sharpener. Of course I never used the sharpener, my personal British butler always sharpened the crayons before I started coloring. My personal French maid would always clean up the art room after I finished coloring.

You've actually had players who cared? Who've commented?

Bob,

Your parents didn't splurge and get you the box with 64 and the sharpener in the middle ???? I'm sure Billy Mac can find a picture of one of those....

My question is, why worry about it one way or the other. I see this like I see the question of wether to take a rolling suitcase or shoulder-carry duffel bag. Do what you want unless it'll make you stand out in a negative way.

Wait what? I've never done this. I've had partners do it, but they tend to follow up with reminding them that we have black lines all the way around and talking about the current year POEs.

Simply pointing out that it wasn't a high school camp.

[QUOTE=BryanV21;936052]I can't believe this subject has garnered three pages of conversation.



Besides, in our pre-game meeting with each team's captain(s) we let them know what color they will be called. If they want to be called something else due to school pride regarding their colors... who cares? Just do it.


"Hello, I am Mr. Bryan your referee AKA Capt. Obvious and you will be red and you will be white. Have a good game and btw the black line is out of bounds......"

I never heard of this, either, but I don't think it's a bad idea. I don't see the point in asking for 90% of the teams in this area (white, black, red, gold, blue, green), but if a team wants to be called "purple" (which is as exotic as it gets around here), I don't see a harm in asking. If you think their request is unreasonable, just say so.

I'm calling BS, Billy. Your Penthouse letter explicitly stated the French maid didn't come into your life until well into adolescence.

I've never had a team wanted to be called anything. It's never been a subject of conversation.

If you want to ask, go ahead. i Just don't see this as worth even asking. I never even bring it up. If they come when I say "Blue captains!" (and they always do), then they know who I'm talking about. If all they hear is "captains" and the first time they hear blue is when I'm announcing who gets the next throw in, they can bring it up then.

I just don't see a problem worth solving here. I don't even see a problem not worth solving, to be honest.

I've never heard of anybody getting upset about not being called their specific team color. But if a team is purple (and you can clearly tell if it's purple or blue), then why not just call them "purple"? Nobody is saying you need to get so specific about the shade of purple they're wearing.

Here In My Little Corner Of Connecticut ...
 

Easy answer. Because we're told not to use more than one syllable. That's what our interpreter, and our two previous interpreters, want. That's how I was trained thirty-three years ago, and that's how cadets are trained today. Those that use colors with more than one syllable risk getting poor peer ratings, which will effect their ranking, and that will impact the level, and number, of games that they are assigned.

OK. Different strokes.

Spice Of Life ...
 

Agree. Not better. Not worse. Just different.

Because we are not trying to please them, we are trying to communicate to our partners and those that have to record stuff. I do not care what teams think of what we call them.

Peace

The only verifying that I do, regarding colours, is with my partner(s) and table crew. The kids will figure it out . . .

I never really do either of these. The table crew knows who is who, and so do my partners. There's nothing wrong with doing it like you do, but I just don't see the point.

Solution in search of a problem, IMO

Because of my color-blindness, I'll sometimes ask my crew, or the table, or a player what color a jersey is. I've never had anybody answer anything other than the basic 1 syllable colors. Once had a timer say we should call a team "Teal", but that was b/c it was her favorite color.

My point is, that if my partner(s) tell me they're going to say "orange", then I'll follow suit, or if they're going to say "purple", then I'll do the same. It's just easier, especially in HS games, with the personnel we get at the table, for all of us to use the same designations.

I've had several off-season games, AAU, in which the Home team was light blue, and the Visitors' colour was dark blue. In most instances, we used the nomenclature of "light" and "dark." I've had a couple of partners who insisted on referring to the light blue as white (?) and the dark as blue.

For the record, I won't flat-out ask what color they want to be called, but I will ask for "blue" captains or bring up the color somehow. Or, although it's something we do here even though it's not in the rule book, we'll ask for "blue's" speaking captain (since more than one usually come to mid-court for the captain's meeting).

I do not ask or tell them what I will call them. I might say to my partner if we have one of those in-between colors that we might call them "black" or "blue" or "gold" if the color is close. Heck the other team is "white" anymore so it makes it really simple to understand.

Peace

With Apologies To Stan Laurel And Oliver Hardy ...
 

Uh oh. Here's another fine mess you've gotten us into.

There are HS guys around here that ask for and will only talk to the speaking captain as well. What a stupid idea. When I am the R, I never ask who the speaking captain is since it means absolutely nothing to me. I will talk to and answer questions for just about any player that speaks to me in a respectful manner, whether they are the speaking captain, a captain, or just a regular player. Further, I have encountered many games were my partner has asked who the speaking captain is, and that player has turned out to be the biggest jackass in the game. Another antiquated and useless practice that just wont seem to go away.

Black Line All The Way Around ...
 

"What's your number? Are you starting?"

Ask Me About My Belt ...
 

I agree with you, but, lighten up. This is another one of those "When in Rome" moments.

I won't go rulebook digging right now, but I'm quite certain the rule says that any player (read: checked into the game) may address an official.

Yeah but the rulebook also says a team is composed of five players, one of whom is the captain. Not sure why anyone would need to know who that one guy is though...

Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 

Notifying the captains when play is about to begin at the start of the
game.

The captain is the representative of his/her team and may address
an official on matters of interpretation or to obtain essential information, if it is
done in a courteous manner.

A captain may request a defensive match-up if three or more substitutes
from the same team enter during an opportunity to substitute.

The free throw(s) awarded because of a personal foul shall be attempted by the
offended player. If such player must withdraw because of an injury or
disqualification, his/her substitute shall attempt the throw(s) unless no substitute
is available, in which case any teammate may attempt the throw(s) as selected by
the team captain or head coach.

The free throws awarded because of a technical foul may be attempted by any
player of the offended team, including an eligible substitute or designated starter.
The coach or captain shall designate the free thrower(s).

Seeing Is Believing ...
 

I will not disagree with the philosophy, but how about a citation, please?

I am pretty sure that the rules allows the captains to do specific things. In practice we do not always speak to officials just because they are a captain. I will speak to the "leader" whether they have the title or any player that is respectful for the most part.

But I do ask for the speaking captain just so I can tell who the coach considers more of their leader.

Peace

I get your point Billy but there is a difference between what the rulebook allows and what actually happens during typical game. (Slight exaggeration added below).

Literally no one has ever done this.

I'll let any player address me if done in a courteous manner.

No player has ever asked for this.

Head coach always chooses.

Head coach always chooses.

At least two of those (notifying captains; asking for a match-up) are incorrect.

And, at least a few times a season, the captain can come in handy to help deal with a different player. It especially seems to help get the message across when you use the first name.

We use the "speaking captain" more as a liaison between us and his/her teammates, not the only person on the team that can speak to us. That doesn't mean we won't talk to any of the players, but some times things happen in which we'll go to the "speaking captain" for help.

Take a situation in which a player is getting frustrated and could become a problem. We'll try and talk to the player, but the player clearly doesn't want to listen to us. In that case we'll go to the "speaking captain" and tell them to calm their team mate down. Sure, we may go to the coach instead or in addition to the "speaking captain", but there are cases in which having one "go to" player can come in handy.

I have a much easier time picking out the actual leader on the floor than remembering which players were captains before the game started.

I'll start asking for the speaking captain when A) they change the rules to allow only the speaking captain to speak, or B) there's a coin flip. Till then, seems utterly pointless. Frankly, the entire captain's meeting seems pointless, but the rules call for it. And of course, if your particular Rome calls for asking for the speaking captain, then ask.

Agree. Speaking captain? Who cares. I don't ask and if I have a partner who does ask, I'll have forgotten it by the time the captains meeting is over.

I just fulfill the requirement by asking "Who's speaking for red?"

I agree. I do not care to remember honestly beyond asking initially. I do sometimes write it down in the book and that is about it. It is mostly ceremonial so they feel like we are doing our job or give them importance, but it is really not that important to me.

Peace

Wrong. I notify the captains before every toss I make.

Isn't that outlined in the Mechanics Manual as part of the proper procedure???

I'll get dinged for that one, unless one considers blowing my whistle as notifying the captains. :)

Because walking to the center circle with the ball in your hand is not signal enough that the game is about to start?

It's my one old school thing that I do. It's still in the book, but I do it mainly because it's probably the only thing that hasn't changed in 28 years.

Frankly, I couldn't give a damn what other people think of me doing it.

I notify everyone....so I get the captains whether I know who they are or not.

Because it's in the book.

Should be reason enough for why someone does it.

Politely Disagree ...
 

Notifying captains: 2-7. Asking for matchup: 3-3-E.

I know that I'm walking on thin ice if I don't always listen to bob, but how are either of these incorrect?

I was referring to the "no one ever does this" parts of the post.

Literally ???
 

Literally? Really? I let all the players, including the captains, know that I'm ready to start, just before I sound my whistle for the opening jump ball. Since I don't ask for a "speaking" captain, I direct my comments to all ten players, which should include the two "speaking" captains, assuming that the two "speaking" captains are starters. We have officials that do ask for "speaking" captains, and several of them remember who they are and actually ask each individually, often by name, if they are ready before sounding their whistle for the opening tap.

AremRed: No player has ever asked you for a "lineup", or a "matchup"? You must be a rookie official with only ten, or fifteen, maybe twenty, years of experience. In thirty-three years I bet that I've been asked about a half dozen times, including a few in high school games. Of course, this rule did disappear from the rulebook for several years, and then magically reappear. We used to do this around the nearest of three, that's right, three, jump ball circles.

Loud Enough For The Bench To Hear ???
 

What if the "speaking" captain isn't a starter?

(Note: I do the same thing.)

Have you ever called a multiple foul? Odds are pretty likely you haven't, even though you have probably had numerous opportunities to do so. That is in the book as well.

It doesn't matter to me whether you, rich, or anyone I happen to be working with informs the speaking captain the game is going to start, or what your reasoning is for doing it. At the end of the day, everybody on the court is well aware the game is starting whether this action is taken or not.

Then I guess we go home.

/\ /\ /\ /\

This.

I agree.

Most of the HS teams in our area choose different "captains" for each game. It's just a thing the coaches do - the same as when I played, back in the 60's.
So, in our pre-game, I tell my partner(s) that we should try to identify the real leaders of both teams during their warm-ups. It's helpful, in the case of a dust-up during the game, to know who has influence with his/her teammates, and can help us, as a calming factor.
I will, sometimes, refer to a player as "captain," as I hand him/her the ball for a throw-in. It seems to reinforce, in their mind and demeanor, the opportunity and responsibility to be a leader.

Very well, upon further inspection:

NFHS Rule 3-1-2 "The captain ... may address an official on matters of interpretation or to obtain essential information, if it is done in a courteous manner. Any player may address an official to request a time-out or permission to leave the court."

So, I suppose a non-captain player is not supposed to ask for info courteously, but if he did, would you consider this unsportsmanlike? Hardly, I say. I typically won't address bench personnel, but if they're on the floor, as I like to say in pre-game, "question anything you like, as long as you're civil about it."

There's also an IAABO mechanic to inform the captains, scorer, and timer, at the start of each overtime period, that we start with a jump ball, the arrow starts fresh, there's an additional 60-second time-out, and we'll continue in the same direction we'll be going.

I say, just call for the captains if and when that happens. No need to memorize anything.

First, I have called a multiple foul before. Once...it will probably never happen again.

Second, it doesn't matter to me whether you agree with what Rich, me, or anyone else you work with does to start the game. Personally, I do not ask for speaking captains, and don't worry about informing them before the toss. But it is in the book, and you commented about why anyone would do it.

A side question...do you blow your whistle before tossing? If so, why? Shouldn't everyone know the game is about to start because you walked to the center circle with the ball in your hand?

That's how I notify the captains. :D

No whistle when I toss. Again, no problem with those that do, but it isn't necessary. The players know the game is about to begin, with or without the whistle.

I blow the whistle ever single time I start the game. Just like I would a quarter or half start. It lets everyone know the game is starting including the partners of mine, coaches, players, bench personnel and even the fans. I would never do it any other way.

Peace

What about following a timeout?

I hit my whistle before each quarter/OT, and before putting the ball in play after an intermission or time-out, including before free throws.

Free Throw Whistle ...
 

Free throws? Good for you. It's in the mechanics manual, but nobody here, in my little corner of Connecticut, ever does it, including me (I would probably be laughed at if I ever did). I wonder how common it is to sound a whistle before a free throw following a timeout in other parts of the country. I'm just thinking aloud. No need for a poll.

Not A Captain ??? Shut Up ...
 

Of course. Flagrant technical foul, and toss him, his coach, the speaking captain, and the horses that they all rode in on.

Not many do in the places I work, but I've decided it's something I will keep doing.

While I'm sure the coaches and players know the game is about to start when you're walking towards center court with the ball, those at the table might appreciate the whistle. They have a number of things to do, so there's a good chance one of them (including the scoreboard operator/timer) could use the head's up.

Many officials will ask the table crew if they are ready before they give the official tossing the ball the thumbs up signal, when they are the tableside official before the toss.

I always do this.
I also always hit the whistle.

Same here.

Peace