Am I sick in the head??

[cowbyfan1]

OK if it is not entertainment then how bout they call traveling more than once a year? or a carry?? How bout an offensive foul on Shaq when he just plows over a defender? Or yet how bout a push off in Jordan in the NBA finals against Utah his last year in Chicago? (think the last 2 fall under preferential star treatment, which seriously needs to go) Then we can talk about it being real basketball.

[Woodee]

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
OK if it is not entertainment then how bout they call traveling more than once a year? or a carry?? How bout an offensive foul on Shaq when he just plows over a defender? Or yet how bout a push off in Jordan in the NBA finals against Utah his last year in Chicago? (think the last 2 fall under preferential star treatment, which seriously needs to go) Then we can talk about it being real basketball.

So what you are telling me is that the officiating is entertainment, not the play? Ask Jason Kidd, Kenyon Martin and Byron Scott if they were entertaining when they got their butts kicked in the finals. All I can say is that the players are out there to win, PERIOD!!!! The NBA is where everyone wants to be, including refs.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Woodee
I'm a big NBA fan and it surprises me when people refer to it as entertainment. The NBA has some of the world's best athletes and it amazes me to see what they do.

Even so, the rules have been written to allow those athletes to do what they do. The rules are written to make the game more entertaining.

[Woodee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Even so, the rules have been written to allow those athletes to do what they do. The rules are written to make the game more entertaining.

IMHO, the rules are written to adapt to the players. They are bigger and faster.

I guess College ball is entertainment also because of the changes in 04-05 (trapezoid lane and longer 3 pt line)?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Woodee
Even so, the rules have been written to allow those athletes to do what they do. The rules are written to make the game more entertaining.

IMHO, the rules are written to adapt to the players. They are bigger and faster.

I guess College ball is entertainment also because of the changes in 04-05 (trapezoid lane and longer 3 pt line)? [/B][/QUOTE]

Woodee, no need to be defensive about it, partner. I enjoy watching the NBA as well. But I recognize that the changes that have been made to the game are for entertainment purposes. That because rules are changed doesn't mean that it's done for entertainment purposes. But with the NBA, it clearly is.

The fact is the rules are different and it's called differently because the NBA is selling a product. Players, coaches, and owners are all making millions. If the fans aren't entertained, they go away and the millions go away. The fact that it's entertainment isn't necessarily bad and it doesn't make it the WWE. But it's an entirely different game.

[Woodee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

IMHO, the rules are written to adapt to the players. They are bigger and faster.

I guess College ball is entertainment also because of the changes in 04-05 (trapezoid lane and longer 3 pt line)?

Woodee, no need to be defensive about it, partner. I enjoy watching the NBA as well. But I recognize that the changes that have been made to the game are for entertainment purposes. That because rules are changed doesn't mean that it's done for entertainment purposes. But with the NBA, it clearly is.


The fact is the rules are different and it's called differently because the NBA is selling a product. Players, coaches, and owners are all making millions. If the fans aren't entertained, they go away and the millions go away. The fact that it's entertainment isn't necessarily bad and it doesn't make it the WWE. But it's an entirely different game. [/B][/QUOTE]



BktBallRef,

The only thing about the NBA I see thats staged is the officiating. I have a tape of the 1998 finals and the MJ
push-off was done right in front of Dick Bavetta. All he had to do was blow the whistle, the replay would have saved him. Because he didn't, we have people calling it entertainment and that takes away from it being a sport. I understand the business side and thats the entertainment aspect, but what happens on the court makes it a legit sport.

Thanks for your feedback!

BTW, what rule changes are for entertainment purposes?

[BktBallRef]

Woodee, in the final seconds, that play isn't going to be called. In the same post-season, Reggie Miller shoved MJ from the 3 point line almost to the division line before catching the ball and hitting a 3 to beat the Bulls in the playoffs at Market Square. I could probably cite a half dozen more instances just like that. So, you stated it yourself. Fans don't want to see an offensive foul called in those situations. That want the entertainment, that shot at the buzzer that wins the game.

You want an example of a rule changed that was designed to make the game more entertaining. How about the rule that allows a team to advance the ball to half court if they call a TO in the last minute of the game? But no, wait. That wasn't good enough. Now, they get the ball at the 28' hash mark. Now tell me that change wasn't made for entertainment purposes.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Sep 1st, 2003 at 10:45 PM]

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Woodee
The only thing about the NBA I see thats staged is the officiating.

Woodee -- I don't think entertainment has to be staged. I don't think the game is played for a certain team to win, it is true competition. But it's still designed especially to be entertaining. A good solid defense can be kind of boring for most fans, so the emphasis is on razzle-dazzle offense. That's not to say it's fake, it's just aimed at a certain fan base. I don't happen to enjoy it very much, and I don't think it's as interesting as college ball, or the WNBA for that matter. But I don't think it's staged.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Woodee -- I don't think entertainment has to be staged. I don't think the game is played for a certain team to win, it is true competition. But it's still designed especially to be entertaining. A good solid defense can be kind of boring for most fans, so the emphasis is on razzle-dazzle offense. That's not to say it's fake, it's just aimed at a certain fan base. I don't happen to enjoy it very much, and I don't think it's as interesting as college ball, or the WNBA for that matter. But I don't think it's staged.

rainmaker makes an important point that I didn't address. just because we consider it to be entertainment, doesn't mean that it's rigged or staged. To the contrary, I don't think that's true at all.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
"How about the rule that allows a team to advance the ball to have court if the call a To in the last minute of the game?"

They can have the court. That must be difficult to get on the plane.

Some of obviously do not walk on water as much as we think they do.

Peace

[Woodee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Woodee, in the final seconds, that play isn't going to be called. In the same post-season, Reggie Miller shoved MJ from the 3 point line almost to the division line before catching the ball and hitting a 3 to beat the Bulls in the playoffs at Market Square. I could probably cite a half dozen more instances just like that. So, you stated it yourself. Fans don't want to see an offensive foul called in those situations. That want the entertainment, that shot at the buzzer that wins the game.

The fans from the losing teams want that offensive foul called!

You want an example of a rule changed that was designed to make the game more entertaining. How about the rule that allows a team to advance the ball to half court if they call a TO in the last minute of the game? But no, wait. That wasn't good enough. Now, they get the ball at the 28' hash mark. Now tell me that change wasn't made for entertainment purposes.

I like your points and will agree to a certain extent.




[Edited by BktBallRef on Sep 1st, 2003 at 10:45 PM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Woodee
The fans from the losing teams want that offensive foul called!

Well, the play by Miller was a shove with both hands.

I'm not so sure about the one hand push by Jordan on Russell. I'd probably pass on that one. Call it and Jackson wants to know why a foul wasn't called on Russell for having his hands all over Jordan.

[Woodee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Well, the play by Miller was a shove with both hands.

I'm not so sure about the one hand push by Jordan on Russell. I'd probably pass on that one. Call it and Jackson wants to know why a foul wasn't called on Russell for having his hands all over Jordan.

I remember the Miller play it was in front of everyone, but on the Pacers' floor. As for MJ's shove, I'm a big fan of MJ and since I've beeen officiating I look at that play differently. Dick Bavetta had a good look at the play and should of called player control only because it was directly in front of him.

Now from a b-ball standpoint, I would prefer MJ take a 19 foot jumper rather than penetrate to the goal for an almost certain foul and the possible free-throw. Problem with that is, HE is the best Hooper to date and given any advantage he would captalize on it.

NBA officiating is tough! Before you know it, they will do away with the refs and allow the players to make their own calls for real entertainment!!

[Samdog]

If you think that basketball is to worst sport to officiate, try soccer!!! I must be crazy, cause I've done that sport for 35 years. I also do football and basketball, and prefere those hands down.

[mick]

Originally posted by Samdog
If you think that basketball is to worst sport to officiate, try soccer!!! I must be crazy, cause I've done that sport for 35 years. I also do football and basketball, and prefere those hands down.

The folks here like Hoops!
We ain't in it for the money... except for... ( um, ....never mind)

...35 years of soccer, buddy. You have to be in great shape!
mick