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-   -   Held ball or foul? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97886-held-ball-foul.html)

Raymond Wed May 21, 2014 02:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams (Post 934575)
I'ld have a foul there.

Now if he's coming into the ball from the other side or if the player is on their back and ball is up above and the player jumps into/onto the ball and ends up landing on the player. Different story.

Yes, then you have a player control foul. :D

BillyMac Wed May 21, 2014 03:58pm

What's The NFHS Signal For Dog Pile ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 934564)
Is this the kinda play on which some would not call a foul?

I've got a foul on the Black player, and I believe that the trail has the same call as me.

Freddy Thu May 22, 2014 07:17am

Achtung!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 934629)
I've got a foul on the Black player, and I believe that the trail has the same call as me.

Of course, only an anal grammar nazi would dare suggest that you should have said, "...as I." :p
But since there is no need for rules or structure or form or orderliness in language anymore -- because, after all, the English were loose with their verbage at some point back in the 16th century -- it really doesn't matter. :mad:

BillyMac Thu May 22, 2014 08:49am

Chaucer Is Rolling Over In His Grave ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 934650)
... there is no need for rules or structure or form or orderliness in language anymore ...

The English language hasn't changed since it was invented. Why should we be allowed to change it now?

To telle yow al the condicioun, Of ech of hem, so as it semed me, And whiche they weren, and of what degree, And eek in what array that they were inne, And at a knyght than wol I first bigynne.

http://comicskingdom.com/rhymes-with-orange/2014-05-15

JRutledge Thu May 22, 2014 08:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 934655)
The English language hasn't changed since it was invented. Why should we be allowed to change it now?

Are you sure about that? The English language is a forever changing thing and always will be. If you know someone that speaks under all the rules and does not use slang, dialect or other social media language it will be a very rare occasion. Oh and the English that spoke the language speak it differently than people in the US. And people in this country never speak it the same way or understand it the same way.

Peace

BillyMac Thu May 22, 2014 09:09am

Who's Anonymous ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 934657)
Are you sure about that?

Please don't make me whip out the blue font and use it on the general prologue to Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales.

Maybe a line from Beowulf would have been a better example:

Oft Scyld the Scefing from scathers in numbers
From many a people their mead-benches tore.

"Nothing is more discouraging than unappreciated sarcasm." (Anonymous)

Adam Thu May 22, 2014 09:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 934655)
The English language hasn't changed since it was invented. Why should we be allowed to change it now?

To telle yow al the condicioun, Of ech of hem, so as it semed me, And whiche they weren, and of what degree, And eek in what array that they were inne, And at a knyght than wol I first bigynne.

Rhymes with Orange by Hilary Price - May 15, 2014 | Comics | Comics Kingdom - Comic Strips, Editorial Cartoons, Sunday Funnies, Jokes

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 934657)
Are you sure about that? The English language is a forever changing thing and always will be. If you know someone that speaks under all the rules and does not use slang, dialect or other social media language it will be a very rare occasion. Oh and the English that spoke the language speak it differently than people in the US. And people in this country never speak it the same way or understand it the same way.

Peace

This was holy crap funny to me.

BillyMac Thu May 22, 2014 09:45am

I Don't Recognize It ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 934660)
This was holy crap funny to me.

Is that a line from the second nun's tale?

Adam Thu May 22, 2014 09:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 934661)
Is that a line from the second nun's tale?

Was that the one with Whoopi Goldberg?

jeremy341a Thu May 22, 2014 10:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 934596)
Getting the ball first doesn't give a player the right to land on another player. Still a foul.


I agree with you yet some will say that if you block the shot first than all other contact after is not a foul.

BillyMac Thu May 22, 2014 11:43am

What Ever Happened To Protect The Shooter ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy341a (Post 934670)
... some will say that if you block the shot first than all other contact after is not a foul.

Note to Some: So, let's see if I've got this straight? A defender runs out to the corner to attempt to block a three point attempt. The defender legally, with no contact between the shooter, and the defender, and successfully, blocks the shot, sending the ball into the crowd (the crowd cheers) but his inertia (I love it when I get to use physics terms on the Forum) carries him into the still airborne shooter, pushing him into the third row of the bleachers, where the shooter sustains a concussion, a simple fracture of his right humerus, and a cut over his right eye that requires six stitches to close. Because the contact occurred after the shot was legally blocked, an official should rule that any subsequent contact is not a foul?

Pantherdreams Thu May 22, 2014 11:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy341a (Post 934670)
I agree with you yet some will say that if you block the shot first than all other contact after is not a foul.

That seems like a blanket statement in both cases (now that the ball is blocked or held) the contact is not gaining the players a clear and immediate advantage in terms of the result of the play. Now to determine a foul call it comes to a judgement about whether the contact is excessive or leading to rough play.

The difference becomes (IMO) that I now cannot call a foul based on the immediate adv/disadv of the play not its a a serverity of contact and if I feel its becoming or leading to rough play.

I'm not sure about the sort of games every officiates but high end boys games JV, Varsity, higher+ in this neck of the woods you getting landed on is probably the least severe amount of contact you are going to deal with on a given possession. So I am going to have to see more then a jump ball where a player ends up on top of the other to make it rough(er).

Pantherdreams Thu May 22, 2014 11:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 934677)
Note to Some: So, let's see if I've got this straight? A defender runs out to the corner to attempt to block a three point attempt. The defender legally, with no contact between the shooter, and the defender, and successfully, blocks the shot, sending the ball into the crowd (the crowd cheers) but his inertia (I love it when I get to use physics terms on the Forum) carries him into the still airborne shooter, pushing him into the third row of the bleachers, where the shooter sustains a concussion, a simple fracture of his right humerus, and a cut over his right eye that requires six stitches to close. Because the contact occurred after the shot was legally blocked, an official should rule that any subsequent contact is not a foul?

That sounds like the sort of play that his interia was out of control and lead to dangerous or rough play. If similar interia carried him past the shooter brushing hinm slightly and the player landing on their feet unphased I'm guessing most would not call the foul. So contact with an airborne shooter isn't always a foul or not always a foul. There is a middle ground in there somewhere. That middle ground is determined by size/ability of athletes, age, level, location (association), and individual judgement. I'm not going to say a player jumping and ending up on another player is never a foul just like I'm not going to say its always a foul.

Raymond Thu May 22, 2014 01:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 934677)
Note to Some: ...

Some did not make this statement. You're basing your question off hearsay by Jeremy.

Rooster Thu May 22, 2014 01:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 934657)
Are you sure about that? The English language is a forever changing thing and always will be. If you know someone that speaks under all the rules and does not use slang, dialect or other social media language it will be a very rare occasion. Oh and the English that spoke the language speak it differently than people in the US. And people in this country never speak it the same way or understand it the same way.

Peace


It might be time to refill a prescription of chill pills.

Know Peace


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