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-   -   Held ball or foul? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97886-held-ball-foul.html)

Robert Goodman Sat May 17, 2014 07:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 933871)
(political correctness prompts too many to avoid the generic singular "he" when it can be used in a non-gender oriented sense...I'm getting tired of typing s/he as a middle ground)
I write that and "hir".

But unless terms have changed, isn't it "tie ball" rather than "held"?

bob jenkins Sat May 17, 2014 09:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 934311)
I write that and "hir".

But unless terms have changed, isn't it "tie ball" rather than "held"?
It's been held ball for at least 18 years.

BillyMac Sun May 18, 2014 12:53am
Are Doomed To Repeat It ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 934311)
Isn't it "tie ball" rather than "held"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 934312)
It's been held ball for at least 18 years.
Better than "jump ball" (I hope that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. doesn't read this).

Robert Goodman Sun May 18, 2014 09:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 934312)
It's been held ball for at least 18 years.
Did they merge it with the existing "held ball" (player holdiing ball 5 sec. in front court while closely guarded or surrounded by teammates & court boundaries)? Or is the latter called something else now?

In NCAA football there was for a while a ball status called "free ball" that was later eliminated, so I wouldn't be surprised.

bob jenkins Mon May 19, 2014 09:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 934338)
Did they merge it with the existing "held ball" (player holdiing ball 5 sec. in front court while closely guarded or surrounded by teammates & court boundaries)? Or is the latter called something else now?
1) No.

2) This has "always" been "closely guarded" and not "held ball"

Robert Goodman Mon May 19, 2014 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 934377)
1) No.

2) This has "always" been "closely guarded" and not "held ball"
I think this is one of those times that "always" depends on how long you've been looking, and possibly at whose codes or whose precis of codes (like Ed Steitz's Illustrated Basketball Rules).

bob jenkins Mon May 19, 2014 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 934388)
I think this is one of those times that "always" depends on how long you've been looking, and possibly at whose codes or whose precis of codes (like Ed Steitz's Illustrated Basketball Rules).
I've only been officiating basketball for 18 years. I didn't actually go back and check my books, but I don't think it was ever (in that time) called "held ball" for closely guarded.

Robert Goodman Tue May 20, 2014 04:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 934391)
I've only been officiating basketball for 18 years. I didn't actually go back and check my books, but I don't think it was ever (in that time) called "held ball" for closely guarded.
Oh, I'm sure you're right about that time. Terms must've changed some time between the 1970s & then.

BillyMac Tue May 20, 2014 06:15pm
i.e. ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 934513)
Oh, I'm sure you're right about that time. Terms must've changed some time between the 1970s & then.
"Forced out."

Freddy Wed May 21, 2014 09:33am
Sample
 
Is this the kinda play on which some would not call a foul?
Foul Piling On to Get Held Ball - YouTube

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/04_iZu1Vx9k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

bob jenkins Wed May 21, 2014 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 934564)
Is this the kinda play on which some would not call a foul?
Foul Piling On to Get Held Ball - YouTube
Good example.

Now, if black had come from the other side (the "left" in the video), I would be less likely to have a foul even if he ended up on top because he (likely) would have the ball first.

Pantherdreams Wed May 21, 2014 11:52am
I'ld have a foul there.

Now if he's coming into the ball from the other side or if the player is on their back and ball is up above and the player jumps into/onto the ball and ends up landing on the player. Different story.

Nevadaref Wed May 21, 2014 01:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams (Post 934575)
I'ld have a foul there.

Now if he's coming into the ball from the other side or if the player is on their back and ball is up above and the player jumps into/onto the ball and ends up landing on the player. Different story.
:)

Camron Rust Wed May 21, 2014 01:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 934593)
:)
Perhaps you should read this:

?He or she? versus ?they? - Oxford Dictionaries (US)

Camron Rust Wed May 21, 2014 01:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams (Post 934575)
I'ld have a foul there.

Now if he's coming into the ball from the other side or if the player is on their back and ball is up above and the player jumps into/onto the ball and ends up landing on the player. Different story.
Getting the ball first doesn't give a player the right to land on another player. Still a foul.


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