Flagrant foul on Lebron (Video)

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Altor

If this is a HS game, after Hibbert gets up with help from teammates and then falls back down, do you have him removed and evaluated for a concussion?

Evaluated? If you think a player is concussed he's done for the game.

[deecee]

I personally do not see this as flagrant. Where is he supposed to put his elbows in this move? His pocket.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

I personally do not see this as flagrant. Where is he supposed to put his elbows in this move? His pocket.

This wasn't a natural elbow movement, for one. It looked pretty apparent to me that it was intentional.

For me, in a HS game, it's at minimum an intentional (automatic, actually, by rule). If I sense even the slightest bit of intent, he's done.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

Evaluated? If you think a player is concussed he's done for the game.

Dead wrong by NFHS rules.


3-3-8

Any player who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion (such as loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness, confusion, or balance problems) shall be immediately removed from the game and shall not return to play until cleared by an appropriate health care professional. (See NFHS Suggested Guidelines for Management of Concussion in Appendix A on page 76.)

[deecee]

"Mr. Dead Wrong" NY state doesn't allow a professional to clear a player once an official disqualifies them for symptoms of a concussion. We can confer with a professional, if one is available, before we make the assessment. But once made the kid is done until he is evaluated and cleared by the school.

NY state doesn't deal with notes during the game. Once a decision is made its final and not reversible by anyone.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

"Mr. Dead Wrong" NY state doesn't allow a professional to clear a player once an official disqualifies them for symptoms of a concussion. We can confer with a professional, if one is available, before we make the assessment. But once made the kid is done until he is evaluated and cleared by the school.

NY state doesn't deal with notes during the game. Once a decision is made its final and not reversible by anyone.

Your original post mentions nothing about NY, and Altor only mentioned "in high school." Does Altor work in NY?

Nevada is right, by NFHS rule, your correction of Altor was incorrect.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Dead wrong by NFHS rules.


3-3-8

Any player who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion (such as loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness, confusion, or balance problems) shall be immediately removed from the game and shall not return to play until cleared by an appropriate health care professional. (See NFHS Suggested Guidelines for Management of Concussion in Appendix A on page 76.)

They are not dead wrong. Any state can make a rule more restrictive. NY State is just saying they do not allow that time to take place during the game or get approval. And this rule appears to be more restrictive in that state.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Let's go through this sequence again.

Originally Posted by Altor

If this is a HS game, after Hibbert gets up with help from teammates and then falls back down, do you have him removed and evaluated for a concussion?

I have no idea where Altor is located. Therefore, the default assumption is that he is inquiring about NFHS rules.

Originally Posted by deecee

Evaluated? If you think a player is concussed he's done for the game.

This statement does not have any qualifier, such as "in my state" or "in NY state"...
Thus it looks as if the poster is providing a general answer for everyone.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Dead wrong by NFHS rules.


3-3-8

Any player who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion (such as loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness, confusion, or balance problems) shall be immediately removed from the game and shall not return to play until cleared by an appropriate health care professional. (See NFHS Suggested Guidelines for Management of Concussion in Appendix A on page 76.)

I didn't write that the poster or his particular state was incorrect in what they may do, rather I very specifically noted that the statement was wrong "by NFHS rules" and included the NFHS citation.
Had either of the previous posters asked for or noted a specific state regulation, I wouldn't have bothered to post. As it was the response was clearly misleading and confusing to anyone not familiar with his specific area.

[JRutledge]

Gotcha Nevada.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Altor

If this is a HS game, after Hibbert gets up with help from teammates and then falls back down, do you have him removed and evaluated for a concussion?

Originally Posted by deecee

Evaluated? If you think a player is concussed he's done for the game.

Altor works in NY? Because your answer is dead wrong for my state also.

[deecee]

I should have specified that in my state concussion type symptoms are treated differently. I guess my response to Nevada was based on a previous bias based on his past pedantic retorts and comments. In all honestly I should have qualified my basis for judgement but a common argumentative and patronizing leading response could have been the trigger for my sarcasm.

Either way there are many cases where the NFHS isn't the holy grail, it is regulated state by state.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by deecee

...based on a previous bias based on his past pedantic retorts and comments. ....

LOL, it's an epidemic this week.

[Rich1]

There is actually a case play dealing with a scenario where the ref sends the player off for concussion like symptoms and then a few minutes later said player reports at the table to enter game. The interp says we should let him in, assuming he has been properly cleared by team medical personnel as it is ultimately there responsibility to do so. (The previous statements paraphrase the material mentioned and are not intended to illicit pages of off topic banter about the "letter of the law" nor is it commentary on individual states application there of. They are simply provided for informational purposes.)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich1

There is actually a case play dealing with a scenario where the ref sends the player off for concussion like symptoms and then a few minutes later said player reports at the table to enter game. The interp says we should let him in, assuming he has been properly cleared by team medical personnel as it is ultimately there responsibility to do so. (The previous statements paraphrase the material mentioned and are not intended to illicit pages of off topic banter about the "letter of the law" nor is it commentary on individual states application there of. They are simply provided for informational purposes.)

Does this case predate the recent change to the concussion rule?

[Rich1]

Originally Posted by Adam

Does this case predate the recent change to the concussion rule?

The interp is from this current years casebook under 2.8.5 and basically says that if a player who was removed by an official for symptoms of concussion later reports to the scorers table to reenter that we should allow him in. It is the coach's/team's responsibility to obtain medical clearance and we shall assume they have done so without the need to verify it. Of course, all of this is moot if your state has stricter rules.

The rules (2-8-5 & 3-3-8) say we have the authority to remove the player until cleared but say nothing about how the player should be cleared. No authority to refuse the player entry is mentioned. Appendix B does go into great detail about concussion orocedures but these are guidelines, not rules, and seem to me to be directed more at coaches/schools than us.

By the way, in Texas, the UIL mandates that schools follow guidelines that are identical to these.