Louisville / UConn Women's Game

[MOofficial]

Was watching the Championship Game last night and saw something that happened and I sat there thinking how the heck would this be administered if it actually happened the way it could have. If someone can pull a video after I describe the play that would be great!

Scenario:

I do not remember who was on offense and defense, but it doesn't matter.

Team A is on a fast break. The guard from Team A dribbles to the corner, a post player from Team A cuts to the basket. The guard fires a Randy Johnson fastball to the cutter and the pass is too hot to handle. The ball goes through the cutters hands but is deflected towards the rim and almost goes in. Now in this process at about the same point the pass is going through the hands, a defender shoves the cutter in the back. The official has the foul and they give Team A the ball for a throw in on the baseline.

My question is what if the ball had went in the goal on the muffed pass and we still had the foul at the same point? I'm thinking the only way to handle it is to count the basket and award team A the ball for a throw in on the baseline.

It was a play I've never seen before and the officials did get together and discuss if it should be a shooting foul, which ultimately they decided it was not, which in my opinion, it was not a shooting foul. They handled it correctly during the game, but I would of had to think about it some on the floor had the ball went in.

[RefCT]

UC was on the fast break. It was around 5 minutes left to go and Brianna Stewart was the one the deflected the pass towards the basket.

I was also confused because at first, the non-calling ref told her she had two shots when she asked if she was shooting.

If that were to happen in my game, I would try to determine when the foul occurred (before or after the deflection). If it was before, I would cancel the basket (not a try for goal) and the foul caused the ball to become dead once it hit her. If it were after, I would count the basket and treat the foul as a common foul, giving the ball back to the offended team at the closest spot.

Interested to see what others say...

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by RefCT

UC was on the fast break. It was around 5 minutes left to go and Brianna Stewart was the one the deflected the pass towards the basket.

I was also confused because at first, the non-calling ref told her she had two shots when she asked if she was shooting.

If that were to happen in my game, I would try to determine when the foul occurred (before or after the deflection). If it was before, I would cancel the basket (not a try for goal) and the foul caused the ball to become dead once it hit her. If it were after, I would count the basket and treat the foul as a common foul, giving the ball back to the offended team at the closest spot.

Interested to see what others say...

Good thing you were not working the game last night, because you don't know the rules about how and when the ball becomes dead.

[RefCT]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Good thing you were not working the game last night, because you don't know the rules about how and when the ball becomes dead.

I guess that's why I am a JV ref then.

If A1 is passing to A2, and B1 fouls A2 before she touches the ball, wouldn't the act of touching the ball by A2 cause it to become dead? Or are you referring to the other situation where she is fouled after deflecting the ball (not a try for goal)? In that case, I could see the ball being dead and not counting the basket since it wasn't a legal try for goal.

Caveat - NFHS, not NCAAW.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by RefCT

I guess that's why I am a JV ref then.

If A1 is passing to A2, and B1 fouls A2 before she touches the ball, wouldn't the act of touching the ball by A2 cause it to become dead? Or are you referring to the other situation where she is fouled after deflecting the ball (not a try for goal)? In that case, I could see the ball being dead and not counting the basket since it wasn't a legal try for goal.

Caveat - NFHS, not NCAAW.

That is better.

It doesn't really matter the order of the foul vs. deflection. The ball is dead on the foul because it is not a try. The status of the ball is not determined by the touch of the ball. The only way the goal is scored is if it went in the basket before the foul, and then you'd have no foul (assuming it wasn't intentional or flagrant).

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by RefCT

I guess that's why I am a JV ref then.

If A1 is passing to A2, and B1 fouls A2 before she touches the ball, wouldn't the act of touching the ball by A2 cause it to become dead? Or are you referring to the other situation where she is fouled after deflecting the ball (not a try for goal)? In that case, I could see the ball being dead and not counting the basket since it wasn't a legal try for goal.

Caveat - NFHS, not NCAAW.

You fixed your own mistake.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RefCT

I guess that's why I am a JV ref then.

If A1 is passing to A2, and B1 fouls A2 before she touches the ball, wouldn't the act of touching the ball by A2 cause it to become dead? Or are you referring to the other situation where she is fouled after deflecting the ball (not a try for goal)? In that case, I could see the ball being dead and not counting the basket since it wasn't a legal try for goal.

Caveat - NFHS, not NCAAW.

You're close.

Touching the ball by A2 does not cause the ball to become dead. In this play, it's dead as soon as the foul occurs.

A foul causes the ball to become dead whenever there is no try involved.

[RefCT]

Thanks for the help and guidance guys. I joined the forum to become a better official (seeing the weird situations) and have enjoyed it so far.

This would probably be a good test question. The key phrase here being pass vs try for goal.