RSBQ: Similar Contact? (video)

[bainsey]

First play: I'm fine with incidental contact. You can say that RSBQ was compromised a bit, but if you see the play through, there was an easy pass for the open three.

Second play: The camera angle doesn't see the hand check, which is typically a "knock it off" call for me. If there was a hand check here, I'm fine with it.

[Blindolbat]

First play: I'm fine with incidental contact and if you see the play through there was an easy pass for the open three. He was going the same place with the ball whether he was bumped or not. I say hold your whistle.

Second play: I don't think there should've been a whistle here either. I never see the right hand on the body and again, where is the offensive player going. If the left hand was on him, it certainly wasn't keeping him from getting anywhere.

[maroonx]

Illegal dribble on black #24 before block by defense.

[#olderthanilook]

I have a blocking foul in Play #1 and nothing (borderline travel - but I'd probably pass) on Play #2.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bainsey

First play: I'm fine with incidental contact. You can say that RSBQ was compromised a bit, but if you see the play through, there was an easy pass for the open three.

Second play: The camera angle doesn't see the hand check, which is typically a "knock it off" call for me. If there was a hand check here, I'm fine with it.

The problem with the first play is that there's a big-time travel after the bump. I think the foul needs to be called there.

I don't see the illegal dribble maroonx mentions.

[referee99]

[Raymond]

#1) Foul. Affect RSBQ and causes a violation.

#2) Marginal, but if called, needs to come from Trail.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Rich

The problem with the first play is that there's a big-time travel after the bump.

I find it interesting how few have mentioned this. We continue to stray farther and farther away from traveling.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I find it interesting how few have mentioned this. We continue to stray farther and farther away from traveling.

If it makes you feel better I didn't even consider the travel when I determined it to be a foul

On another front: for those in the "RSBQ was compromised but he got the pass off..." camp, we're probably going to need to modify that thinking because...lots of people have video cameras (and there are PiTAs like me who post plays on internet forums ). Lots of games below the college level are televised, streamed, etc. In other words, there are many more eyes on us now than there were even five years ago. If either coach clipped Play #1 and sent it to an assignor/supervisor IMO they'd have a legit gripe regarding a no-call.

*HC for Black: "My kid got knocked off balance..."
*HC for White: "The kid traveled before he passed the ball and they got a wide open three."

The fact the NCAA (M & W) is trying to get away from this stuff is another source of pressure for lack of a better word. I know I've had plays in my college games this season that I wouldn't have put a whistle on a year ago until the play "developed." Now they want the RSBQ contact called so freedom of movement isn't compromised and those who know more than me keep emphasizing the same thought process is filtering down to the HS level.

Just my $0.02.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I find it interesting how few have mentioned this. We continue to stray farther and farther away from traveling.

I don't see a travel in play #1, but there may well be a travel in play #2.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

I don't see a travel in play #1, but there may well be a travel in play #2.

The travel is blatantly obvious in play 1. Look at the first video at about 0:17 - 0:18 seconds. Regardless of where you think the gather happens, the right foot either comes down twice after the gather or is on the floor when he gathers, is picked up, and is put back on the floor.

I was working a first round regional game last Tuesday and called two obvious spin move travels on the first 5 or so possessions down the floor. The coach told me that hadn't been called all year. I told him exactly what had happened -- pivot foot lifted and replaced after the gather/end of dribble. His comment, "Oh, I'm sure you're right, but nobody calls that!"

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by Rich

The travel is blatantly obvious in play 1. Look at the first video at about 0:17 - 0:18 seconds. Regardless of where you think the gather happens, the right foot either comes down twice after the gather or is on the floor when he gathers, is picked up, and is put back on the floor.

I was working a first round regional game last Tuesday and called two obvious spin move travels on the first 5 or so possessions down the floor. The coach told me that hadn't been called all year. I told him exactly what had happened -- pivot foot lifted and replaced after the gather/end of dribble. His comment, "Oh, I'm sure you're right, but nobody calls that!"

In play one, the contact by defender occurs first. It probably causes the travel.

What about a possible travel in play #2? It's close, imo.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

What about a possible travel in play #2? It's close, imo.

Here's my opinion:

Right foot pivot after the gather, never comes back down. Left foot hops, but the pass is clearly out before it comes back to the floor a second time.